DOS ain't dead

Just to let you know, I've been dead a few recent months. Sorry about unanswered useful mail and forum posts and unfinished stuff on my side. Thanks to people who released useful things in the meantime: FFK, FreeDOS guys, King Udo, Japheth, Xiph guys, Igor, Bret , Attila, Tomasz, ... and last but not least Bill (is Windaube severn "7" really useful ???) and the guy behind the accounts Steve & Sol here in (did he ever release anything besides attacks ???)

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This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> Just to let you know, I've been dead a few recent months. Sorry about
> unanswered useful mail and forum posts and unfinished stuff on my
> side.

I was a little worried (seriously), but I'm quite glad you're back!

> Thanks to people who released useful things in the meantime:
> FFK, FreeDOS guys,

Note that kernel 2039 does have some regressions (Breadbox Ensemble, finddisk) although I haven't bothered to test the improved COUNTRY.SYS support yet.

> King Udo, Japheth,

Yeah, Japheth has apparently been working ridiculously hard on JWasm 2.00. And don't forget Jack for all his UIDE etc. improvements. Huge kudos to them!

> Xiph guys, Igor,

Has 7-Zip really had any changes lately? (p7zip hasn't) It seems like very little. But nevertheless still cool. I did update my compiles of 7zdec, though, to 9.07.

> Bret

Been too lazy to try it, but it might work best with either 2038 stable or even 2039. Even PLoP boot manager has read-only USB support.

> Attila,

Not to imply that Mpxplay isn't awesome, but no Intel HDA means bad news for my laptop. (Grrr, stupid hardware.) :(

> Tomasz,

Not much on the FASM front besides Linux ELF improvements.

> ... and last but not least Bill (is Windaube severn
> "7" really useful ???)

Dunno, it comes out in two days. Even _Family Guy_ will have a sponsored episode for it (eh?). I won't buy it, but bro already pre-ordered it (sale). Supposedly back to XP speeds, but I'm still skeptical due to same driver model as Vista and same requirements and same NT major kernel version (6.1). You can't even upgrade from XP, but XP is pretty good anyways.

> and the guy behind the accounts Steve

Not the same person as "Sol".

> Sol here in (did he ever release anything besides attacks ???)

Yes, "sol" released something, but I can't tell you without revealing his private identity. Oh well, at least I found it useful.

> Note that kernel 2039 does have some regressions (Breadbox Ensemble

What does it do wrong ???

> Not to imply that Mpxplay isn't awesome, but no Intel HDA means bad
> news for my laptop

It DOES support HDA

BTW, I had little time to test all the stuff so far, so let's hope that the results don't get too much worse after more testing

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> > Note that kernel 2039 does have some regressions (Breadbox Ensemble
>
> What does it do wrong ???

Breadbox Ensemble? No idea, never used it. But something messes up finddisk (which works fine in 2038, also like Breadbox). Don't know of any other new incompatibilities offhand.

Haven't heard jack from anybody except one or two (at most!) minor e-mails from Eric. I think everybody is just too busy.

> > Not to imply that Mpxplay isn't awesome, but no Intel HDA means bad
> > news for my laptop
>
> It DOES support HDA

It didn't work for me when I tried it. Not that I really care (don't have that many music files), though. Honestly, I don't expect miracles, and Mpxplay has already far far surpassed my hopes and dreams.

> BTW, I had little time to test all the stuff so far, so let's hope that
> the results don't get too much worse after more testing

Well, aren't the odd-numbered ones "experimental"? If so, then I wouldn't worry.

> Well, aren't the odd-numbered ones "experimental"? If so, then I wouldn't
> worry.

They dropped the "unstable"/"stable" scheme because much of the work done on 2037 wasn't utilized for 2038+ and they want to avoid unnecessary forks.

---
l

> > > Not to imply that Mpxplay isn't awesome, but no Intel HDA means bad
> > > news for my laptop
> >
> > It DOES support HDA
>
> It didn't work for me when I tried it. Not that I really care (don't have
> that many music files), though. Honestly, I don't expect miracles, and
> Mpxplay has already far far surpassed my hopes and dreams.

Be aware that only analog output is supposed to work. OTOH with my laptop's Intel HDA Mpxplay has sound only through the speaker output jack, internal speaker remains silent.

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Glory to God for all things

Rugxulo wrote:

> > > Note that kernel 2039 does have some regressions (Breadbox Ensemble
> > What does it do wrong ???
> Breadbox Ensemble?

This doesn't reveal what the kernel does wrong, and I don't use the thing ...

> It didn't work for me when I tried it.

Make sure to use the "non-digital" output and if it still doesn't work, report a bug to the author

> Not that I really care (don't have that many music files), though.
> Honestly, I don't expect miracles, and Mpxplay has already far
> far surpassed my hopes and dreams.

So, Rugxulo and evebody who has access to HDA, please test and report the results The lack of feedback increases the risk the thread subject will apply to MPXPLAY soon

> > BTW, I had little time to test all the stuff so far
> Well, aren't the odd-numbered ones "experimental"? If so, then I wouldn't worry.

What ???? FreeDOS ? FASM ? MPXPLAY ?

> They dropped the "unstable"/"stable" scheme because much of the work
> done on 2037 wasn't utilized for 2038+ and they want to avoid unnecessary forks.

Good idea

Khusraw wrote:

> Be aware that only analog output is supposed to work. OTOH with my
> laptop's Intel HDA Mpxplay has sound only through the speaker output jack,

hanging on what output ?

> internal speaker remains silent

hanging on what ? AFAIK MPXPLAY doesn't support the old internal "PC-speaker" at all.

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This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> > Be aware that only analog output is supposed to work. OTOH with my
> > laptop's Intel HDA Mpxplay has sound only through the speaker output
> jack,
>
> hanging on what output ?

Where did you find "hanging" written?!

> > internal speaker remains silent
>
> hanging on what ? AFAIK MPXPLAY doesn't support the old internal
> "PC-speaker" at all.

Laptop's internal (integrated) speaker, not PC speaker! Mpxplay has sound only through the headphones/line-out jack.

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Glory to God for all things

> > > internal speaker remains silent
> >
> > hanging on what ? AFAIK MPXPLAY doesn't support the old internal
> > "PC-speaker" at all.
>
> Laptop's internal (integrated) speaker, not PC speaker! Mpxplay has sound
> only through the headphones/line-out jack.

Headphones didn't help me, no sound output at all.

Honestly, though, I always hear how annoying hardware incompatibility is, so I'm not surprised (or hopeful) about it.


[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>vv
D:\*.*

TMP                (DIR)              Oct,23,2009   02:08:28pm   ....
mpxplay  exe       536,902            Sep,13,2009   08:00:40pm   A...
mpxplay  ini       23,909             Oct,23,2009   02:12:20pm   A...
[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>
[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>ver /r

FreeCom version 0.84-pre2 XMS_Swap [Aug 28 2006 00:29:00]
DOS version 6.22
FreeDOS kernel build 2038 [version May 16, 2009 compiled May 16 2009]
[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>
[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>mpxplay -sct
Autodetecting/testing available outputs/soundcards, please wait...
IHD : NVidia MCP51 (10DE026C) -> Conexant (14F15045) (max 192kHz/24bit/2ch)
Autodetecting finished... Exiting...
[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>
[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>scrndump


> Headphones didn't help me, no sound output at all.
>
> Honestly, though, I always hear how annoying hardware incompatibility is,
> so I'm not surprised (or hopeful) about it.

You can download the test/debug version and send the debugging output to Attila:
http://www.freewebtown.com/mpxplay/test/test.htm

---
Glory to God for all things

Khusraw wrote:

> > > Be aware that only analog output is supposed to work. OTOH
> > hanging on what output ?
> Where did you find "hanging" written?!
> Laptop's internal (integrated) speaker, not PC speaker!
> Mpxplay has sound only through the headphones/line-out jack.

Still, does it have any docs revealing to what of the multiple HDA outputs your "internal speaker" is connected and to what output your "head-jack" ???

Rugxulo wrote:

[ FreeDOS ] Fri 10-23-2009>mpxplay -sct
Autodetecting/testing available outputs/soundcards, please wait...
IHD : NVidia MCP51 (10DE026C) -> Conexant (14F15045) (max
192kHz/24bit/2ch)
Autodetecting finished... Exiting...

Good, now run the PCI thing, and submit both results to the author.

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> Still, does it have any docs revealing to what of the multiple HDA outputs
> your "internal speaker" is connected and to what output your "head-jack"
> ???

I would warmly recommend you to think twice before replying to my posts. DOS386, a couple of years from my life I even worked with people like you (EDIT: i.e. school class buffoons) almost on a daily basis. So I know very well your genre, you have no secrets to me.

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Glory to God for all things

> Khusraw: You can download the test/debug version and send the
> debugging output to Attila:
> http://www.freewebtown.com/mpxplay/test/test.htm

That's an old pre-alfa version from June, and it uses DOS/4G (ugh), which personally I avoid like the plague (is it even free in any sense??).

> DOS386: Good, now run the PCI thing, and submit both results to
> the author.

What PCI thing, you mean the debug version above or something else??

> That's an old pre-alfa version from June(...)

Intel HDA support hasn't been changed since then.

> (...) and it uses DOS/4G (ugh), which
> personally I avoid like the plague (is it even free in any sense??).

If for whatever reason you don't want to compile the debug version for yourself, then ask Attila to provide you with a non-DOS/4G debug version because you don't like DOS/4G. I don't think that simply replacing the stub will work.

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Glory to God for all things

> > DOS386: Good, now run the PCI thing, and submit both results to
> > the author.
>
> What PCI thing, you mean the debug version above or something else??

He means this one: http://members.datafast.net.au/dft0802/downloads.htm

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Glory to God for all things

Rugxulo wrote:

> And don't forget Jack for all his UIDE etc. improvements. Huge kudos

If someone uses it in DOS and it works well for him then this is good news, OTOH I personally have little motivation to update because:

- It still doesn't support AHCI (and I don't have such a thing either)
- It still doesn't support non-BIOS disks (and I don't have such a thing either)
- It still doesn't support Multiword-DMA (and I do have such a thing)
- In the past some versions of UIDE didn't work for me
- I am sufficiently happy with XDMA 3.1 from 4 years ago

> > Tomasz,
> Not much on the FASM front besides Linux ELF improvements.

Very wrong conclusion

Khusraw wrote:

> 24.10.2009, 09:51 (edited by Khusraw, 24.10.2009, 11:55)

Attack post needed 1'000'000'000 edits before it got "good"

> I would wormly recommend you to think twice before replying to my posts.

yeah

> a couple of years from my life I even worked with people like you (EDIT: i.e.
> school class buffoons) almost on a daily basis. So I know very well

so please reveal it all !!! What happened as next ? You got some trouble with them ??? And how is this related to HDA support in MPXPLAY ?????

> > What PCI thing, you mean the debug version above or something else??
> He means this one: http://members.datafast.net.au/dft0802/downloads.htm

Exactly

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> so please reveal it all !!! What happened as next ? You got some trouble
> with them ???

Not at all, I left for much better salary. And I left without too much regret, the education system in my country has dropped considerably in quality in the last 15 years, and there are not the students those who bear the principal guilt.

> And how is this related to HDA support in MPXPLAY ?????

It is related to your simple-minded comments. In case you feel the need to be helpful/useful, write replies where you have at least the slightest idea on the subject.

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Glory to God for all things

Khusraw wrote:

> there are not the students those who bear the principal guilt

Interesting point, but I'm NOT going to play the judge in this incident.

> Not at all, I left for much better salary
> you feel the need to be helpful/useful, write replies where you have at least

OK, if you think that my posts are not useful, why do you invest time to answer to them, rather than further enhancing your salary ?

DOSser's having HDA wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>

(nothing visible in MPXPLAY forum nor Tracker)

Obviously the need to troll is stronger than the need to provide productive feedback in this community.

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> OK, if you think that my posts are not useful, why do you invest time to
> answer to them, rather than further enhancing your salary ?

In order to make you aware of how poor your posts are, you being "the unknower who doesn't know that he doesn't know" type. But it seems it doesn't matter too much to you as long as you continue to spot the board's face with your trashy comments, disfiguring it, so I will stop here answering you. To quote your smart words: "EOD".

> (nothing visible in MPXPLAY forum nor Tracker)

For your info: Mpxplay's Intel HDA driver is not original work, but an adaptation of ALSA's Intel HDA driver, so it inherits that driver problems. When Attila will have time, he will undoubtly update the driver after ALSA's latest one.

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Glory to God for all things

> In order to make you aware of how poor your posts are, you being "the
> unknower who doesn't know that he doesn't know" type. But it seems it
> doesn't matter too much to you as long as you continue to spot the board's
> face with your trashy comments, disfiguring it.

Stupidity and rudeness must go on

> When Attila will have time, he will undoubtly update the driver after ALSA's latest one.

Possibly YES, except, of course, he has reasons to to ASS'ume that nobody is interested in DOS support anymore.

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> Has 7-Zip really had any changes lately? (p7zip hasn't) It seems like very
> little. But nevertheless still cool. I did update my compiles of
> 7zdec, though, to 9.07

YES it did, there were notable enhancements to the LZMA SDK, bloat increased from 1'948'160 to 2'478'592 Bytes , there are code rearrangements, 7zr got merged in, and last but not least XZ format got supported (no test no use ???) as well as LZMA2 algo, and it seems to work in your 7ZDECWAT (4.65 "7za" rejects it). Still, 9.07 is a beta only and the disk image support is only present in the very full DLL-based version.

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> > Has 7-Zip really had any changes lately? (p7zip hasn't) It seems like
> very
> > little. But nevertheless still cool. I did update my compiles of
> > 7zdec, though, to
> 9.07
>
> YES it did, there were notable enhancements to the
> LZMA SDK, bloat increased from 1'948'160 to 2'478'592 Bytes , there are
> code rearrangements, 7zr got merged in, and last but not least
> XZ format got supported (no test no use ???)

I never tested XZ yet, no huge need on my end. Also, didn't take too close a look at the LZMA SDK (and UPX still uses old 4.43, dunno why, although I did find 4.48 to be slower and worse compression, so there must be some issues with newer versions).

> as well as
> LZMA2 algo, and it seems to work in your 7ZDECWAT (4.65
> "7za" rejects it).

Right, I'm aware that LZMA2 has some minor? benefits, but yeah, it's incompatible with older 7-Zips, and it doesn't even always compress as well (or very very little improvement), so it's still beta.

FYI, 7ZDECWAT is the smallest, and it's a self-contained all-in-one .EXE, but it doesn't support LFNs. Just be aware of that limitation. (The DJGPPv2 version is 46k, which is only 8k bigger, but I had to tweak a lot to get that small. And it's also self-contained and supports LFNs, if you need it.)

P.S. The default p7zip sfx for DOS is pretty big (475k in my compile of 4.65), which is kinda silly. Not so useful on small files (negates any savings). It would probably be smaller / easier to just use LHA sfx (.EXE adds only 3k) and the telop "!" file with a 7zdec bundled to unpack the "real" .7z file inside.

> Still, 9.07 is a beta only and the disk image
> support is only present in the very full DLL-based version.

Yes, I know it's beta, but worse is that p7zip 9.04 is the latest and doesn't even really compile easily (well, my silly hack doesn't work anymore, haven't looked too closely, don't really grok C++, so it doesn't work in FreeDOS out-of-the-box). At least we have HX + 7ZA (although 4.65 is probably "good enough" for most DOS users).

> Right, I'm aware that LZMA2 has some minor? benefits, but yeah, it's
> incompatible with older 7-Zips, and it doesn't even always compress as
> well (or very very little improvement), so it's still beta.

I doubt this will change/improve much, LZMA2 is better on poorly compressible files, OTOH on well compressible, it is frequently worse (very marginally) than LZMA.

> FYI, 7ZDECWAT is the smallest, and it's a self-contained all-in-one .EXE,

Just no decryption

> but it doesn't support LFNs. Just be aware of that limitation. (The
> DJGPPv2 version is 46k, which is only 8k bigger, but I had to tweak a lot to
> get that small. And it's also self-contained and supports LFNs, if you need

Sorry I don't.

> Yes, I know it's beta, but worse is that p7zip 9.04 is the latest and
> doesn't even really compile easily (well, my silly hack doesn't work anymore

9.04 has some critical bugs unfixed to no need to bother with it

http://p7zip.sourceforge.net/

> Last Modified: 21 Feb 2009

http://sourceforge.net/projects/p7zip/files/

> Newest Files p7zip_9.04_src_all.tar.bz2 2009-06-07 18:32:22 GMT

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

It is fascinating how irregularly DOS386 appears here.
He comes in this and forum writes many contributions and then disappears for many months. And again.
I looks like he serves on a russian submarine. When not in mission he sits at home talks with us on this forum and downloads new stuff. Then he leaves to mission under sea and without internet access. In this time he tests some DOS programs on some onboard DOS computer.
And after mission he returns to home submarine base in Murmansk and the cycle repeats.
Or am I wrong?

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DOS-u-akbar!

> It is fascinating how irregularly DOS386 appears here.
> He comes in this and forum writes many contributions and then disappears
> for many months. And again.

Yes, he's quite good at testing and keeping the wiki up-to-date (among other things).

> I looks like he serves on a russian submarine. When not in mission he sits
> at home talks with us on this forum and downloads new stuff. Then he leaves
> to mission under sea and without internet access. In this time he tests
> some DOS programs on some onboard DOS computer.
> And after mission he returns to home submarine base in Murmansk and the
> cycle repeats.
> Or am I wrong?
>

Heheh, I doubt it. For one, I think I vaguely heard that the Russian subs use Windows, which DOS386 hates with a passion (and aren't that DOS-friendly anymore anyways). But perhaps he does bring aboard his own DOS-based PC somewhere. My cousin's stepdaughter's husband and brother-in-law are in the U.S. Navy. There was an article recently with the brother quoted about something silly (he was onboard playing his PS Vita while waiting for his laundry to finish), so I guess anything's possible.