DOS ain't dead

I am looking for a DOS based SYS program for
Microsoft MSDOS8.

Several of the boot disks I have downloaded
contain a DOS based SYS program, but all of these
programs simply tell you to run the WIN based SYS
program from inside Windows.

Help would be appreciated.

Steve Broshears ..

> I am looking for a DOS based SYS program for
> Microsoft MSDOS8.
> Help would be appreciated.
Basically you need a legal licensed copy of either ME or XP - so you may already own a legal copy but may not have realise it. Computerhelp have a good basic overview of the SYS + FORMAT commands required for making bootdisks under ME. e.g. Under ME it is as simple as using either "SYS A:" or "FORMAT A: /S". XP is more involved and I don't personally have the time to explain right now but the above link should at least be a useful starting place for XP as well.

In terms of easily creating/imaging bootdisks - I would recommend taking a look at UNetbootin or if you want to get closer to the metal RawWrite or DD (standard Linux or DD for Windows) instead.

The are lots of options which come down to personal choice, e.g. I like and dislike unetbootin - I like its ease of use for people but dislike the end results which work (as it uses SYSLINUX) but I personally feel for me that I can achieve better end results in other ways, so it is rare that I use UNetbootin myself but I can recommend it for most peoples bootdisk needs.

To make RAWRITE format floppy images and copy them
to floppies, you can use HD-COPY 2.5E. It is freeware
with TUI interface. It works under real mode DOS and
all Windows versions, including Windows 7. I did not
test it under Windows 8.
Its IMG format is RAWRITE type (uncompressed raw
diskette image having HEX EB at offset 0). HD-COPY
uncompressed IMG, WinImage, UltraISO, and PowerISO
uncompressed IMA, Virtual PC VFD, VMWare FLP, and
MagicISO BIF images are identical by contents.
For boot sectors handling you can use Bart's MakeBoot
2.0. It supports floppy images, so you can use it
without diskette unit. I made 2.88 MB bootable
floppy image using MakeBoot, but I do not have 2.88
MB diskette unit.
There is no SYS utility in Windows XP, so I had
to download DataLight ROM-DOS 4.20.1594 Single User
Version (last freeware version). It has SYSXP.EXE
for Windows XP.
If you use Total Commander, maybe this section of
my multiarc.ini will help

; -----------------------------------------------------------------------
; TC MultiArc config addon for diskette images
; UnDDI 1.04 MultiArc Release 18.01.06 Copyright (c) Mariusz Borkowski
; http://www.ii.pw.edu.pl/~borkowsm/files/unddi104.zip
; Mariusz's original version of UnDDI doesn't work with MultiArc because
; it doesn't support paths.
; A version of UnDDI working with MultiArc (compiled by Mariusz) can be
; found at http://www.famlehm.de/deleteme/tychobarfy/files/unddi.zip
; (This addon corrected by Mirko Vojvodic)
; -----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
[DiskDupe 3 and 4 Image]
ID=49 4D 00,EB
IDPos=0,9216
; All DiskDupe 3 and 4 images have ID=49 4D 00 at IDPos=0. They also have
; ID=EB at IDPos 9216 (9216 dec=2400 hex) except DiskDupe 3 7.10 images.
; Tested with DiskDupe Pro 3.30, DiskDupe Pro 4.04, and DiskDupe 3 Pro
; 6.00, 7.00, and 7.10 (all for DOS)
Extension=ddi
Description="UnDDI 1.04 MultiArc Release 18.01.06"
Archiver=%COMMANDER_PATH%\UTILS\UNDDI.EXE
IgnoreErrors=0
SearchForUglyDirs=0
Start="^---------------------------------------"
End="^---------------------------------------"
Format0="nnnnnnnnnnnnn zzzzzzz yyyy-tt-dd hh:mm"
List=%P l %aQA
Extract=%P e -oy %aQA
ExtractWithPath=%P x -oy %aQA
SkipLIST=1
Debug=0
;
[DiskDupe 5 Image]
ID=4D 53 44 20 49 6D 61 67 65 20,EB
IDPos=0,1280
; All DiskDupe 5 images have ID=4D 53 44 20 49 6D 61 67 65 20
; ie. text (blank is hex 20) M S D I m a g e
; at IDPos=0 and ID=EB at IDPos=1280 (1280 dec=500 hex)
; Tested with DiskDupe 5.0 and 5.1 for DOS
Extension=ddi
Description="UnDDI 1.04 MultiArc Release 18.01.06"
Archiver=%COMMANDER_PATH%\UTILS\UNDDI.EXE
IgnoreErrors=0
SearchForUglyDirs=0
Start="^---------------------------------------"
End="^---------------------------------------"
Format0="nnnnnnnnnnnnn zzzzzzz yyyy-tt-dd hh:mm"
List=%P l %aQA
Extract=%P e -oy %aQA
ExtractWithPath=%P x -oy %aQA
SkipLIST=1
Debug=0
;
[SH-CopyStar Image]
ID=EB,EB 3C 90 43 6F 70 79 53 74 61 72
; C o p y S t a r
; Tested with SH-CopyStar 4.31 and 4.31B
IDPos=168
Extension=csi
Description="UnDDI 1.04 MultiArc Release 18.01.06"
Archiver=%COMMANDER_PATH%\UTILS\UNDDI.EXE
IgnoreErrors=0
SearchForUglyDirs=0
Start="^---------------------------------------"
End="^---------------------------------------"
Format0="nnnnnnnnnnnnn zzzzzzz yyyy-tt-dd hh:mm"
List=%P l %aQA
Extract=%P e -oy %aQA
ExtractWithPath=%P x -oy %aQA
SkipLIST=1
Debug=0
;
[IBM MIF Diskette Image]
ID=EB
IDPos=560
Extension=mif
Description="UnDDI 1.04 MultiArc Release 18.01.06"
Archiver=%COMMANDER_PATH%\UTILS\UNDDI.EXE
IgnoreErrors=0
SearchForUglyDirs=0
Start="^---------------------------------------"
End="^---------------------------------------"
Format0="nnnnnnnnnnnnn zzzzzzz yyyy-tt-dd hh:mm"
List=%P l %aQA
Extract=%P e -oy %aQA
ExtractWithPath=%P x -oy %aQA
SkipLIST=1
Debug=0
;
[DSK Diskette Image]
ID=EB
IDPos=512
Extension=dsk
Description="UnDDI 1.04 MultiArc Release 18.01.06"
Archiver=%COMMANDER_PATH%\UTILS\UNDDI.EXE
IgnoreErrors=0
SearchForUglyDirs=0
Start="^---------------------------------------"
End="^---------------------------------------"
Format0="nnnnnnnnnnnnn zzzzzzz yyyy-tt-dd hh:mm"
List=%P l %aQA
Extract=%P e -oy %aQA
ExtractWithPath=%P x -oy %aQA
SkipLIST=1
Debug=0
;
[Raw Diskette Image]
ID=EB
IDPos=0
Extension=bif,flp,ima,img,vcp,vfd
; All raw diskette images have ID=EB at IDPos 0, except
; HD-COPY 2.x compressed IMG images which have it at IDPos=187
; (187 dec=BB hex)
; HD-COPY 2.x by Oliver Fromme makes compressed IMG images
; by default. Such images are not supported by this MultiArc
; addon. To make uncompressed IMG images one has to use
; command line switch /I- or use this switch in HD-COPY.CFG
; to make that option permanent (the letter I must be uppercase).
;
; RAWRITE and other DOS and Linux raw floppy image utilities
; always produce uncompressed IMG images.
;
; HD-COPY uncompressed IMG, WinImage, UltraISO, and PowerISO
; uncompressed IMA, Virtual PC VFD, VMWare FLP, and MagicISO BIF
; images are identical by contents.
;
; WinImage IMZ images are not supported. They have to be unzipped
; and then they can be unpacked by this MultiArc addon.
;
; Moenkemeier's VGA-COPY 6.xx compresses its VCP images using
; ARJ if it can find ARJ.EXE in the PATH. Both uncompressed and
; compressed VCP images have VCP extension. To make uncompressed
; VCP images you have to make ARJ unavailable to VGA-COPY.
; Only uncompressed VCP images are supported by this MultiArc
; addon, so compressed ones have to be unarchived previously using
; ARJ.
Description="UnDDI 1.04 MultiArc Release 18.01.06"
Archiver=%COMMANDER_PATH%\UTILS\UNDDI.EXE
IgnoreErrors=0
SearchForUglyDirs=0
Start="^---------------------------------------"
End="^---------------------------------------"
Format0="nnnnnnnnnnnnn zzzzzzz yyyy-tt-dd hh:mm"
List=%P l %aQA
Extract=%P e -oy %aQA
ExtractWithPath=%P x -oy %aQA
SkipLIST=1
Debug=0

> I am looking for a DOS based SYS program for
> Microsoft MSDOS8.
>
> Several of the boot disks I have downloaded
> contain a DOS based SYS program, but all of these
> programs simply tell you to run the WIN based SYS
> program from inside Windows.
>
> Help would be appreciated.
>
> Steve Broshears ..

Sys.com version 8.0 is functionally limited, using sys.com version 7.10 is included in Windows 98SE and put it to the table version setver.exe from boot disk Windows ME, as a driver (line device = setver.exe in config.sys ), you can remove the restrictions functionality of MS-DOS 8.0. Instead of file setver.exe can use the driver ver710.sys by Dencorso (put DEVICE=VER710.SYS as the very first line in CONFIG.SYS). Another way use deversioned sys.com version 7.10, with any hex editor replace 3D 0A 07 74 to 90 90 90 EB
More about MS-DOS 8.00

Thank you all for your help.

I am now up and running both MSDOS7 and MSDOS8
with proper SYS FORMAT and LABEL programs that
install new OSs on a floppy and a hard disk as
they should.

I have also applied all the patches.

------

Now a new subject.

If an external program is run from the command prompt
MSDOS searches for the executable first in the current
working directory (.\) and then it searches the path.

This is lousy if the CWD is a floppy which slows down
things a large ammount.

There used to be (20 years ago) a patch to disable the
initial CWD search. Then you put .\ at the very end of
the path spec to re-gain functionality.

Does anyone have an idea how to re-implement this
functionality in MSDOS7 or 8?

Steve ...

> If an external program is run from the command prompt
> MSDOS searches for the executable first in the current
> working directory (.\) and then it searches the path.
>
> This is lousy if the CWD is a floppy which slows down
> things a large ammount.
>
> There used to be (20 years ago) a patch to disable the
> initial CWD search. Then you put .\ at the very end of
> the path spec to re-gain functionality.
>
> Does anyone have an idea how to re-implement this
> functionality in MSDOS7 or 8?

Not directly, no, though there's probably an easy way (guessing).

The best answer I can give is a workaround: just make sure you copy any needed files off the floppy to RAM disk, then do all your (temporary, don't need to save) work there. Also be sure %TEMP% is pointing to RAM disk. But I assume a cache would basically do this automatically. Still, I do both just to be sure, it's easier for me.

> There used to be (20 years ago) a patch to disable the initial CWD search.
> Then you put .\ at the very end of the path spec to re-gain functionality.
>
> Does anyone have an idea how to re-implement this functionality in MSDOS7 or
> 8?

I've never heard of that "patch" before. I'm guessing the patch literally involved modifying COMMAND.COM with DEBUG. It also sounds like something that 4DOS might have implemented (they had lots of good ideas on "better" ways to do DOS than MS ever had), though I haven't used 4DOS in a long time.

Another thing you're forgetting about (or at least not mentioning) is that DOS looks to its internal commands (stored in RAM) before it starts looking at any external files to try and figure out what it should do. DOS also provides a function that effectively lets you turn any external program (TSR) into an "internal function", which means that the local disk doesn't need to be accessed. I've only seen one TSR that used this capability, though -- an old PC Magazine utility called STRINGS.

I have batch files that use many external programs.
They go clunk clunk clunk if the CWD is A:. The work
around is of course a ramdisk or at least not to
make the CWD A:.

This is just a SMALL better idea.

Steve ...

> I have batch files that use many external programs. They go clunk clunk
> clunk if the CWD is A:. The work around is of course a ramdisk or at least
> not to make the CWD A:.
>
> This is just a SMALL better idea.

Those are certainly possibilities. It might also be possible to create a TSR that uses the "internal function extension" that can take care this for you automatically. I'm not sure, though -- you might actually need to prefix each command not on the floppy with a special prefix (e.g., instead of "program" you would need to type "f program", with the "f " indicating that you know the program is not on the current floppy drive). If you end up needing to do the prefix thing, it may not be any better than the existing workarounds.

Just a thou8ght.