DOS ain't dead

Hi,
How to load drivers to upper memory on notebook? I use jemm386 and UMBPCI, but any good interest. UMBPCI finds frame of up memory, but nothing to upload there.
David

EDIT by rr: changed subject

> How to load drivers to upper memory on notebook? I use jemm386 and UMBPCI,
> but any good interest. UMBPCI finds frame of up memory, but nothing to
> upload there.

Run GETI15EX.EXE from HXRT.ZIP and post the output here. (I assume this is what Japheth would say, if he weren't so busy porting XDMA32 to JLM, heh.)

> Run GETI15EX.EXE from HXRT.ZIP and post the output here. (I assume this is
> what Japheth would say, if he weren't so busy porting XDMA32 to JLM, heh.)

No, I'm busy hunting hypos who are hiding in FOG.

The problem is that I don't really understand what the problem is.

But I'm pretty sure that GETI15EX won't help much, using the simple MEM might be a better idea.

---
MS-DOS forever!

The problem is that I don't really understand what the problem is.

Hi Japheth, could you help me how to set up config files to get upper
memory? Thank you David

@ECHO off
PATH D:\DOS;D:\ARACHNE;
SET PATH=D:\PERL\BIN;%PATH%
REM SET PATH=D:\WIN32API\BIN;%PATH%
REM SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32;%PATH%
D:\DOS\SHSUCDX.COM /D:OAK
LH D:\DOS\DOSLFN.COM
REM LH D:\DOS\CTMOUSE.EXE /3 /R0
LH D:\REALTEC\RTPCI.EXE /MD000 /I11
LH D:\REALTEC\RTBIOS.COM

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=D:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D800-EFFF
DEVICE=D:\DOS\JEMM386.EXE X=D000-D3FF
REM DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE X=D000-D3FF RAM M3 D=256 AUTO
REM DEVICE=D:\DOS\JEMMEX.EXE  X=D000-D3FF
DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:OAK
DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\UIDE.SYS /S5 /D:OAK
DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\MOUSE.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\USBASPI.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\DI1000DD.SYS
SHELL=D:\COMMAND.COM D:\ /E:512 /P
HISTACKS
HIFILES=60
HIFCBS=4,4
HILASTDRIVE=Z
HISTORY=ON,1024,ON
DDSCS=HIGH,UMB
VERSION=7.10,7.10

Memory Type        Total       Used       Free
----------------  --------   --------   --------
Conventional          639K       134K       505K
Upper                   0K         0K         0K
Reserved              385K       385K         0K
Extended (XMS)    260,972K     5,508K   255,464K
----------------  --------   --------   --------
Total memory      261,996K     6,027K   255,969K

Total under 1 MB      639K       134K       505K

EDIT by rr: added {code} tags

> DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
> DEVICE=D:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D800-EFFF
> DEVICE=D:\DOS\JEMM386.EXE X=D000-D3FF

Using UMBPCI the way you did is not a good idea if Jemm386 is to be installed as well. Since UMBPCI is loaded after Himem, it will install itself as an "UMB provider", which might be a problem if Jemm386 also has to supply UMBs (FreeDOS accepts ONE UMB provider only). Better is:

DEVICE=D:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D800-EFFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=D:\DOS\JEMM386.EXE X=D000-D3FF S=D800-EFFF

---
MS-DOS forever!

This is on EDR-DOS_7.0.1.8

DEVICE=D:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D800-EFFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=D:\DOS\JEMM386.EXE X=D000-D3FF S=D800-DFFF FRAME=E000

The upper memory is still 0kB, why? I removed PCMCIA ethernet card
Realtec and It was no way to change this situation

> This is on EDR-DOS_7.0.1.8
>
> DEVICE=D:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D800-EFFF
> DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
> DEVICE=D:\DOS\JEMM386.EXE X=D000-D3FF S=D800-DFFF FRAME=E000
>
> The upper memory is still 0kB, why? I removed PCMCIA ethernet card
> Realtec and It was no way to change this situation

Please ask yourself a question: what do you expect us to do? Then try to imagine what kind of information might be needed to effectively do those things! At last, PROVIDE these informations!

A hint: jemm386 is able to display the UMBs it has created.

---
MS-DOS forever!

Hi Japheth,
I would like to know why RAM on my notebooks are diferent from RAM standard PC? Why I can`t attempt to upper memory on notebooks, when I use UMBPCI or EMM386? Can I read somewhere how notebook memory works?
Thank you David

> Hi Japheth,
> I would like to know why RAM on my notebooks are diferent from RAM
> standard PC? Why I can`t attempt to upper memory on notebooks, when I use
> UMBPCI or EMM386? Can I read somewhere how notebook memory works?
> Thank you David

What are you you talking about? What does Jemm386 tell about its UMBs when you start it from the command line?

---
MS-DOS forever!

> Please ask yourself a question: what do you expect us to do? Then try to
> imagine what kind of information might be needed to effectively do those
> things! At last, PROVIDE these informations!

I'll put these to message #1:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way by Eric S. Raymond, Rick Moen
How to Report Bugs Effectively by Simon Tatham

---
Forum admin

> What are you you talking about? What does Jemm386 tell about its UMBs when
> you start it from the command line?

There is no difference betwen PC and notebook?
I started jemm386 from command line > jemm386.exe load < and then nothing strench, jemm386 displayed > jemm386 loadded < nothing more.
Then I started mem from command line and upper memory is 0kB ??
This stay on my notebooks with Datalight DOS and Enchanced DR-DOS, why?
When I use QEMM9 memory manager, then notebooks frozen

> There is no difference betwen PC and notebook?

There probably is a difference.

> I started jemm386 from command line > jemm386.exe load < and then nothing
> strench, jemm386 displayed > jemm386 loadded < nothing more.
> Then I started mem from command line and upper memory is 0kB ??
> This stay on my notebooks with Datalight DOS and Enchanced DR-DOS, why?
> When I use QEMM9 memory manager, then notebooks frozen

What is the BIOS and what are the settings? Some BIOSes require correct setting of OS, or OS type. Some perhaps are not friendly to DOS.

> I started jemm386 from command line > jemm386.exe load < and then nothing
> strench, jemm386 displayed > jemm386 loadded < nothing more.

You missunderstood. I meant that jemm386 is to be installed in config.sys, and THEN you should start it from the command line - without parameters - and it will display its UMB status.

---
MS-DOS forever!

> You missunderstood. I meant that jemm386 is to be installed in config.sys,
> and THEN you should start it from the command line - without parameters -
> and it will display its UMB status.

Yeah, AFAIK, JEMM386 will never use UMBs if started from cmdline.

P.S. Any reason to use a separate HIMEM from Win9x instead of JEMMEX (EMS + XMS in one)?

> You missunderstood. I meant that jemm386 is to be installed in config.sys,
> and THEN you should start it from the command line - without parameters -
> and it will display its UMB status.

Thank you Japheth, I am learning to use jemm386
The extract is

EMS is on, 24 of max 2072 pages allocated, Page frame at e000
VCPI is on, 96 of max 30816 pages allocated.
DMA buffer at 00120000, size 64kB
A20 emulation is on
VME is on
PGE is off
UMB suplied at d408-d487, allocated
UMB suplied at d488-d507, allocated
UMB suplied at d508-d607, allocated
UMB suplied at d608-dfff, free

it is mean that is not space in UMB memory ?

David

> UMB suplied at d408-d487, allocated
> UMB suplied at d488-d507, allocated
> UMB suplied at d508-d607, allocated
> UMB suplied at d608-dfff, free
>
> it is mean that is not space in UMB memory ?

No, it means that your DOS hasn't touched UMBs, but "someone else" did allocate 3 UMBs, with sizes 2kB, 2kB and 4 kB. About 40 kB UMB are still free.

To make DOS use UMBs you have to ensure that there is a line in CONFIG.SYS:

DOS=HIGH,UMB

---
MS-DOS forever!

> To make DOS use UMBs you have to ensure that there is a line in
> CONFIG.SYS:
>
> DOS=HIGH,UMB

The mystery has solution, CONFIG.SYS contained only DDSCS=HIGH,UMB !
After replace it by DOS=HIGH,UMB I have 48KB free upper memory
Thank you Japheth for learning it and wish you a nice day !

Dave

> DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\MOUSE.SYS
> REM LH D:\DOS\CTMOUSE.EXE /3 /R0

Why not use CTMouse? Unlike the other one, it can unload (instead of forcing a reboot).

> DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:OAK
> DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\UIDE.SYS /S5 /D:OAK

CD and DVD drives, I assume?

> HISTACKS

Are you sure you need this? Some people avoid it like the plague unless you really need it.

> HILASTDRIVE=Z

I wouldn't set it so high unless you really need it (e.g. various SUBST drives). It wastes extra memory this way.

> HISTORY=ON,1024,ON

Toddy is better and can be unloaded. And of course, 4DOS has its own built-in.

Just FYI.

> Why not use CTMouse? Unlike the other one, it can unload (instead of
> forcing a reboot).

Because mouse is sensitive and ctmouse crashes everytime durring boot to EDR-DOS. it is sufficient to small move or shock durring boot and EDR-DOS is stoped , sometime jemm386 calls report of ctmouse driver.

> > DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:OAK
> > DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\UIDE.SYS /S5 /D:OAK
>
> CD and DVD drives, I assume?

Yes, I tried such with DVD-RAM and aspi.sys, can I find some new emulation driver like aspi.sys?

> > HISTACKS
>
> Are you sure you need this? Some people avoid it like the plague unless
> you really need it.

I understand what means stack on microchips, but here I don`t know its function ...

> > HILASTDRIVE=Z
>
> I wouldn't set it so high unless you really need it (e.g. various SUBST
> drives). It wastes extra memory this way.

I have drivers > A-M installed.

> > HISTORY=ON,1024,ON

it is not need ?

> Because mouse is sensitive and ctmouse crashes everytime durring boot to
> EDR-DOS. it is sufficient to small move or shock durring boot and EDR-DOS
> is stoped , sometime jemm386 calls report of ctmouse driver.

All I can think of is try loading it low (-w, IIRC). If that doesn't work, then never mind.

EDIT: There are actually three versions of CTmouse in circulation: 1.9 stable, 2.0 alpha, and 2.1 "non-EGA". I usually don't use a mouse in DOS, but I know that my (brief) tests have noticed that sometimes 1.9 works better when 2.0 won't work at all (or vice versa). So try another version instead and see if that helps:

http://cutemouse.sourceforge.net/ (1.9.1 and 2.0a4)
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/mouse/eric/ (2.1b, no longer EGA compatible but bugfixed??)

> > > DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:OAK
> > > DEVICEHIGH=D:\DOS\UIDE.SYS /S5 /D:OAK
> >
> > CD and DVD drives, I assume?
>
> Yes, I tried such with DVD-RAM and aspi.sys, can I find some new emulation
> driver like aspi.sys?

Dunno. I just meant that UIDE should support both CD and DVD at the same time, no?

> > > HISTACKS
> >
> > Are you sure you need this? Some people avoid it like the plague unless
> > you really need it.
>
> I understand what means stack on microchips, but here I don`t know its
> function ...

I don't really know either (interrupt stack or some b.s.). That's why it's best to avoid it unless you know otherwise. Something about IBM PC compatibles need ... while others need .... (I can check DR-DOS' DOSBOOK.EXE later today for you, if you want.) Nevermind, I can boot FreeDOS in QEMU and use it's HELP.EXE:

> stacks
> Adds stacks to handle hardware interrupts.
>
> stacks=nn,nnn
>
> Options
>
> nn
> the number of stacks in the range 8-64, and 0.
>
> nnn
> The size of each stack, in bytes, in the range of 32-512.

Bah, not very descriptive. Oh well, just avoid it unless some app needs it.

> > > HILASTDRIVE=Z
> >
> > I wouldn't set it so high unless you really need it (e.g. various SUBST
> > drives). It wastes extra memory this way.
>
> I have drivers > A-M installed.

Well, I use a lot of SUBST drives (H: -> HOME, P: -> PROJECTS, Z: -> C:\ZIPS), so I personally need it (usually) unless mostly clean booting. If you don't do similar, you probably don't need it. (Besides, DR-DOS allegedly supports beyond that even: LASTDRIVE=32)

> > > HISTORY=ON,1024,ON
>
> it is not need ?

With the built-in history, you can't adjust it or unload it. Toddy is both a DOSKEY and HISTORY replacement, is open source, small, very configurable, and can be unloaded. That's why I like it. Same thing applies to DR-DOS' VDISK (use TDSK or SHSURDRV instead, they can be resized if you need the extra RAM). I find these more flexible options, but feel free to use whatever.

> http://cutemouse.sourceforge.net/ (1.9.1 and 2.0a4)
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/mouse/eric/
> (2.1b, no longer EGA compatible but bugfixed??)

I will try it , ver.2.0a4 works but boot from autoxec.bat is dangerous

> Dunno. I just meant that UIDE should support both CD and DVD at the same
> time, no?

OK, works I removed vide-cdd.sys from CONFIG.SYS

> I don't really know either (interrupt stack or some b.s.). That's why it's
> best to avoid it unless you know otherwise. Something about IBM PC
> compatibles need ... while others need .... (I can check DR-DOS'
> DOSBOOK.EXE later today for you, if you want.) Nevermind, I can boot
> FreeDOS in QEMU and use it's HELP.EXE:

I removed it and I did`nt recognize a change.

> Well, I use a lot of SUBST drives (H: -> HOME, P: -> PROJECTS, Z: ->
> C:\ZIPS), so I personally need it (usually) unless mostly clean booting.
> If you don't do similar, you probably don't need it. (Besides, DR-DOS
> allegedly supports beyond that even: LASTDRIVE=32)

Ok , I fill it by 32 instead of driver Z

> With the built-in history, you can't adjust it or unload it.
> Toddy is both
> a DOSKEY and HISTORY replacement, is open source, small, very configurable,
> and can be unloaded. That's why I like it. Same thing applies to DR-DOS'
> VDISK (use TDSK or SHSURDRV instead, they can be resized if you need the
> extra RAM). I find these more flexible options, but feel free to use
> whatever.

I removed HISTORY, but toddy is a little bit diferent from UNIX doskey style?

Many thanks for prompter how to improve system files.
David

> > I don't really know either (interrupt stack or some b.s.). That's why
> it's
> > best to avoid it unless you know otherwise. Something about IBM PC
> > compatibles need ... while others need .... (I can check DR-DOS'
> > DOSBOOK.EXE later today for you, if you want.) Nevermind, I can boot
> > FreeDOS in QEMU and use it's HELP.EXE:
>
> I removed it and I did`nt recognize a change.
>

DR-DOS 7.03's DOSBOOK says something like this: "STACKS are 0,0 for IBM PCs and PC/XTs and 9,128 for others." I dunno if that means by default (probably) or something to manually set. Either way, it's probably not accurate for modern (> 486) computers. I can't remember exactly, but I think SETUP /A reports my P166 as a 486. So, it's woefully out of date (as some would say). Hence the reason that FreeDOS has replaced/improved a lot of functionality.

> > Well, I use a lot of SUBST drives (H: -> HOME, P: -> PROJECTS, Z: ->
> > C:\ZIPS), so I personally need it (usually) unless mostly clean
> booting.
> > If you don't do similar, you probably don't need it. (Besides, DR-DOS
> > allegedly supports beyond that even: LASTDRIVE=32)
>
> Ok , I fill it by 32 instead of driver Z
>

Why? Unless you have that many drives, you're just wasting memory.

> I removed HISTORY, but toddy is a little bit diferent from UNIX doskey
> style?
>

* "toddy" brings up a menu of your cmdline history.
* "toddy /ml" shows you all your macros.
* "toddy blah=echo hello, $1 $t cls $s" says hello to parameter #1 while cls afterwards (the $s is parameter sink since parameters are passed to cls otherwise which probably won't work)
* "toddy /ow" writes your current setup (macros, etc.) to TODDY.CFG although you can also write to TODDY.COM itself

There's also adjustable history and macro size (among a billion other options). However, I've found that TODDY doesn't work w/ FreeDOS' FreeCOM (which has limited history support built-in by default). Oh well.

> Many thanks for prompter how to improve system files.

BTW, just to be ultra pedantic, here's two things I changed recently:

* CONFIG.SYS -- changed all REM to ; (for floppies, that could save a whole cluster, w00t!)
* CONFIG.SYS -- if you use SWITCH, apparently using ":himemumb" (HIMEM/UMBPCI) and ":himem" (HIMEM only) won't work b/c "goto himem" will always go to ":himemumb" (bug?), so you have to rename ":himem" to ":himem2" and then it'll work.

P.S. You can SET, ECHO, CHAIN, CPOS, GOSUB in CONFIG.SYS. In fact, w/ DR-DOS' COMMAND.COM, you can GOSUB, IF ... AND, IF ... OR, ECHOS, ECHOERR, etc. Of course, Lucho would tell you that 4DOS is much better.

If you want more help/info, just ask.

> David

> BTW, just to be ultra pedantic, here's two things I changed recently:
>
> * CONFIG.SYS -- changed all REM to ; (for floppies, that could save a
> whole cluster, w00t!)

Another good reason to change: REM is a command, lines with ; are immediately passed over - no CPU cycles wasted (same for :: in AUTOEXEC or other BATfile).

I comming back to cute mouse, ctmouse2.1b works without older version`s behaviour ctmouse. Now I can move with mouse durring boot and it seems to be OK.

> Another good reason to change: REM is a command, lines with ; are
> immediately passed over - no CPU cycles wasted (same for :: in AUTOEXEC or
> other BATfile).

Thank you for explanation.

> If you want more help/info, just ask.

Hi Rugxulo,

One problem is occured after new settings in CONFIG.SYS, Now I can login to forum from Debian, and I have better comfort than in Arachne.
The problem concern Arachne, when I am openning INBOX, Arachne displays 'cannot allocate memory for reading of the index' the free dos memory is 141 [+] , why?, when I decrease space of low memory, then I have not displayed this message and openning INBOX normally.

The second question is about djgpp. I ask you once about symlinks emulated in djgpp library. When I want compile cdrtools package. I can create smake.exe but there are created no function links, I have to copy files.
There is not this situation on cygwin enviroment.

David

> One problem is occured after new settings in CONFIG.SYS, Now I can login
> to forum from Debian, and I have better comfort than in Arachne.
> The problem concern Arachne, when I am openning INBOX, Arachne displays
> 'cannot allocate memory for reading of the index' the free dos memory is
> 141 [+] , why?, when I decrease space of low memory, then I have not
> displayed this message and openning INBOX normally.

So it has problems with too much low memory free? I dunno, probably a bug, report it.

> The second question is about djgpp. I ask you once about symlinks emulated
> in djgpp library. When I want compile cdrtools package. I can create
> smake.exe but there are created no function links, I have to copy files.
> There is not this situation on cygwin enviroment.

No idea what you mean here (and I've never used cdrtools). Only DJGPP 2.04-compiled stuff supports symlinks of data (non-EXE) files. To make symbolic links that 2.04 understands, you have to use LN.EXE (dated Dec. 15, 2003) from the 2.04-compiled FIL41B.ZIP (under /beta/). That's all I know, sorry.

---
Know your limits.h

> Another good reason to change: REM is a command, lines with ; are
> immediately passed over - no CPU cycles wasted (same for :: in AUTOEXEC or
> other BATfile).

It thinks it's a label and skips it. Plus, "REM" won't let you use "><|" in the comment, but "::" will. Of course, you could also do this:

goto comment
blah blah blah >>>> !!!! <<<< |||||
--430892450725
   some more dumb stuff
sudo rm -rf /
:comment

P.S. Did you know that batch labels are only significant up to 8 chars long? (unless using e.g. Win XP's CMD or 4DOS)

---
Know your limits.h

> So it has problems with too much low memory free? I dunno, probably a bug,
> report it.

I wrote to Glenn about this

> No idea what you mean here (and I've never used cdrtools). Only DJGPP
> 2.04-compiled stuff supports symlinks of data (non-EXE) files. To make
> symbolic links that 2.04 understands, you have to use LN.EXE (dated Dec.
> 15, 2003) from the 2.04-compiled
> FIL41B.ZIP
> (under /beta/). That's all I know, sorry.

Yes create ln -s XX YY works, but this message

!<symlink>../cdrecord/defaults.c
This is just a text to force symlink file to be 510 bytes long. Do not delete it nor spaces following it.

in file defaults.c explain what??

This is an example, files 510 bytes long are there a lots of, they should be replace unix symlinks in djgpp?
This is what I mean.

David

> Yes create ln -s XX YY works, but this message
>
> !<symlink>../cdrecord/defaults.c
> This is just a text to force symlink file to be 510 bytes long. Do not
> delete it nor spaces following it.
>
> in file defaults.c explain what??
>
> This is an example, files 510 bytes long are there a lots of, they should
> be replace unix symlinks in djgpp?
> This is what I mean.

I hope this explains it (as best I understand, anyways):

For instance, I use an editor called TDE. It is compiled for DOS twice (16-bit, 32-bit) and Windows. However, the 32-bit build was compiled via DJGPP 2.03p2. So, I have to rebuild w/ DJGPP 2.04 (e.g. GCC 4.2.2 in this instance). Done! Now, I do a "ln -s macro.c david.c", and "tdep david.c" (with the new 2.04-compiled TDE), and it actually ends up opening macro.c instead. So, I type "david" in the "david.c" file, save, close. Now open macro.c, and it miraculously says "david" at the top! See?

> I hope this explains it (as best I understand, anyways):
>
> For instance, I use an editor called TDE. It is compiled for DOS twice
> (16-bit, 32-bit) and Windows. However, the 32-bit build was compiled via
> DJGPP 2.03p2. So, I have to rebuild w/ DJGPP 2.04 (e.g. GCC 4.2.2 in this
> instance). Done! Now, I do a "ln -s macro.c david.c", and "tdep david.c"
> (with the new 2.04-compiled TDE), and it actually ends up opening macro.c
> instead. So, I type "david" in the "david.c" file, save, close. Now open
> macro.c, and it miraculously says "david" at the top! See?

many thanks, I will create and test symlink according to your directions