DOS ain't dead

I was noticed by Bear Windows (author of VBEMP driver) that newer intel graphics should fully support VBE 3.0 including refresh rate settings. Now I have 945G onboard VGA (together with my PCIE nvidia), it claims to be VBE 3.0 but when I try to set higher refresh rate (with UNIVBE VBETEST or VBEHz tool) it mess-up the screen (black with some short random vertical lines at top of the screen) and monitor OSD tells me the timing is still 60Hz. When it switch back to textmode, screen goes normal. Did someone else have 945G or similar and successfully tested it?

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> I was noticed by Bear Windows (author of VBEMP driver) that newer intel
> graphics should fully support VBE 3.0 including refresh rate settings. Now
> I have 945G onboard VGA (together with my PCIE nvidia), it claims to be VBE
> 3.0 but when I try to set higher refresh rate (with UNIVBE VBETEST or VBEHz
> tool) it mess-up the screen (black with some short random vertical lines at
> top of the screen) and monitor OSD tells me the timing is still 60Hz. When
> it switch back to textmode, screen goes normal. Did someone else have 945G
> or similar and successfully tested it?

The test was under Windows or in plain DOS?

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DOS-u-akbar!

> The test was under Windows or in plain DOS?

Plain DOS. It's VESA releated stuff, nothing to do with windows drivers. I tried VBEHz TSR and VBETEST.EXE from univbe to set refresh via standard VBE 3.0 rules (which worked fine e.g. on older nvidias).

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

I solved the problem by VGA BIOS update.
This driver package contains latest intel VGA BIOS for 945G/965G/G3x. I used CBROM to modify my mobo BIOS image and replace old VGA BIOS (yes it was very old from 2005). Now refresh rate setting by VBEHz and other tools forks fine hmm nice to see 85Hz again. But it's not very comfortable to switch monitor and VGA between DOS and other OS sessions but good to have this chance...

Here's listing and performance of my 945G:

Generated by Martin's VGA13/VESA driver test 1.41
Host CPU id: 6F6h, host OS: DOS

VESA VBE 3.0 Intel(r) 82945G Chipset Family Graphics Chip Accelerated VGA BIOS [7872 kB]
Intel Corporation
Intel(r) 82945G Chipset Family Graphics Controller
Hardware Version 0.0
OEM software revision 1.0
VBE/AF version 0.0
27 videomodes available on this card

#0 = 160h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#1 = 161h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#2 = 162h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#3 = 163h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#4 = 164h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#5 = 165h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#6 = 166h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#7 = 167h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#8 = 168h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#9 = 13Ch - 1920x1440/8
#10 = 14Dh - 1920x1440/16
#11 = 15Ch - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
#12 = 13Ah - 1600x1200/8
#13 = 14Bh - 1600x1200/16
#14 = 15Ah - 1600x1200/32
#15 = 107h - 1280x1024/8
#16 = 11Ah - 1280x1024/16
#17 = 11Bh - 1280x1024/32
#18 = 105h - 1024x768/8
#19 = 117h - 1024x768/16
#20 = 118h - 1024x768/32
#21 = 112h - 640x480/32
#22 = 114h - 800x600/16
#23 = 115h - 800x600/32
#24 = 101h - 640x480/8
#25 = 103h - 800x600/8
#26 = 111h - 640x480/16

VideoModeNumber = 411Bh
5242880 kB allocated for FrameBuffer
LFB Selector = C7h
LFB PhysBasePtr = D0000000 h
Measured refresh rate = 85.60 Hz
Measured 33 FPS (FrameBuffer>VRAM)
(transfer speed 167 MB/s)

With Write Combinning for LFB enabled:

Measured 43 FPS (FrameBuffer>VRAM)
(transfer speed 217 MB/s)

hehe it's more than 10-times slower than PCI-E nvidia 7600GS

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> #0 = 160h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #1 = 161h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #2 = 162h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #3 = 163h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #4 = 164h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #5 = 165h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #6 = 166h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #7 = 167h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> #8 = 168h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)

The time has come to add support for all those useful modes

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This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> > #0 = 160h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #1 = 161h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #2 = 162h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #3 = 163h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #4 = 164h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #5 = 165h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #6 = 166h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #7 = 167h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
> > #8 = 168h - 0x0/0 (unsupported by VESADRV)
>
> The time has come to add support for all those useful modes

I didn't find this modes in VBE 3.0 specification, they're some vendor-specific wide screen modes but I cannot find what should be mode 15Ch.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> I didn't find this modes in VBE 3.0 specification, they're some
> vendor-specific wide screen modes but I cannot find what should be mode
> 15Ch.

Since VBE 3.0, the VESA VBE committee in their infinite wisdom said that they would no longer issue standard video modes, and much, much worse than this, also said that VBE vendors do not have to comply with the ones already defined!

Don't you just love committees.

@DOS386: I've finally got my GV/GVFM distro together - can your email box handle a 14MB zip file?

It is not wise to use some fixed values for VESA modes. I allways scan modelist and read mode number from it.

> @DOS386: I've finally got my GV/GVFM distro together - can your email box
> handle a 14MB zip file?

Can you to send me it too, please?

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DOS-u-akbar!

> Since VBE 3.0, the VESA VBE committee in their infinite wisdom said that
> they would no longer issue standard video modes, and much, much worse than
> this, also said that VBE vendors do not have to comply with the ones
> already defined!

Do you mean that there are vendors who implement specific videomode number as different resolution/depth than as is described in VBE 3.0 spec? This would be really bad! Theoretically it may happen for mode excluded from spec but I belive they are smart enough to not make a babel from it.

Anyway we should be satisfied there is a such VESA standard allowing setting SVGA modes same way on diff HW otherwise it would be really mess with many drivers and even nobody will now support DOS so we would left with VGA only.

Unfortunately the standartization didn't get further - to get some BIOS functions for 2D primitives and block transfer would be nice. There already was an attempt with VBE/AF but AFAIK they wanted too high license fees from vendors so nobody adopted this standard.

So currently VBE 3.0 is the best we can get (even maybe FreeVBE/AF on few adapters). I wish VBE will be keep as long as is possible on new VGAs.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> Do you mean that there are vendors who implement specific videomode number
> as different resolution/depth than as is described in VBE 3.0 spec?

I don't know if there are, but there certainly could be because abiding by the old VBE mode numbers (eg: 101h = 640x480x8bpp) is not mandatory! They could use almost any other number for that mode instead. Hopefully none of the vendors out there are that stupid.

> Anyway we should be satisfied there is a such VESA standard allowing
> setting SVGA modes same way on diff HW otherwise it would be really [a] mess

Quite. It's just a pity that it's the 15 year old boy on 2 weeks job experience that gets to write the VBE implementations these days.

> Unfortunately the standartization didn't get further - to get some BIOS
> functions for 2D primitives and block transfer would be nice.

Yes.

> There already was an attempt with VBE/AF but AFAIK they wanted too high
> license fees from vendors so nobody adopted this standard.

It was years before the VBE specs were freely available. Before that you had to spend a lot of $$$ to get them.

> So currently VBE 3.0 is the best we can get (even maybe FreeVBE/AF on few
> adapters).

If it's only implemented on a few, then it may as well not be implemented on any.

I wish VBE will be keep as long as is possible on new VGAs.

I think Linux might be our saviour here, because AFAIK, it is still used as the "last resort" video driver on that O/S.

> I don't know if there are, but there certainly could be because abiding by
> the old VBE mode numbers (eg: 101h = 640x480x8bpp) is not mandatory! They
> could use almost any other number for that mode instead. Hopefully none of
> the vendors out there are that stupid.

Aha, I though it is mandatory...

> I think Linux might be our saviour here, because AFAIK, it is still used
> as the "last resort" video driver on that O/S.

Hope so but it may be very restricted. See Bear Windows FAQ where he say:

nVidia GeForce 5xxx/6xxx/7xxx (and newer ones)

PRB: Cannot use custom screen refresh rates, but card identifies itself as VBE 3.0 compatible.
DETAILS: In Video BIOS screen refresh rates switching code is changed. When you try to ask BIOS to set it, BIOS always set default refresh (60 Hz).
FIX: None known.

nVidia GeForce 5xxx/6xxx/7xxx (and newer ones)

PRB: Cannot set any resolution higher than 800x600.
DETAILS: In Video BIOS mode tables - 1024x768 modes and higher are absent or filtered. When you try to ask BIOS to set it, BIOS returns an error.
FIX: Update your BIOS with latest version or patch it.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> nVidia GeForce 5xxx/6xxx/7xxx (and newer ones)
>
> PRB: Cannot set any resolution higher than 800x600.
> DETAILS: In Video BIOS mode tables - 1024x768 modes and higher are absent
> or filtered.

I don't know about changing the refresh rates, but my nNidia GeForce 7600 GT has a 3.0 VBE and can go to at least 1200x1024x32bpp. I don't know if the resolution is limited on my machine due to 1280x1024 being the native resolution of my LCD monitor, or not.

> I don't know about changing the refresh rates, but my nNidia GeForce 7600
> GT has a 3.0 VBE and can go to at least 1200x1024x32bpp. I don't know if
> the resolution is limited on my machine due to 1280x1024 being the native
> resolution of my LCD monitor, or not.

Hehe, my 7600GS can even work in 2048x1536/32 VESA mode. But missing modes is known prolbem, I readed about it on other forums but don't remember which GF it was.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> Hehe, my 7600GS can even work in 2048x1536/32 VESA mode. But missing modes
> is known prolbem, I readed about it on other forums but don't remember
> which GF it was.

That's pretty unwieldy. My (average) digital camera takes pics which, at the highest res, are that size. Do you have a monitor big enough to show that?! (Doubt it. Personally, I'd find that way too big. Kinda annoying since you can finally get a decent-sized mini tower, like 1/3 the size of a normal desktop cpu, but then the freakin' monitor is 22" HUGE! Only for graphics whores I guess, heh.)

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Know your limits.h

> > Hehe, my 7600GS can even work in 2048x1536/32 VESA mode.

> That's pretty unwieldy.

Well, that kinda depends on the pixels-per-inch. We've been stuck at around 90-120ppi for a long time now. It's time the display manufacturers got their fingers out their backsides and started giving us a decent ppi value. Something like 300-400 would be nice.

> the highest res, are that size. Do you have a monitor big enough to show
> that?! (Doubt it. Personally, I'd find that way too big. Kinda annoying

No I have just 17" CRT but it is capable to display this resolution. Of course only @60Hz but nvidia don't allow me higher anyway. Better is to use 1600x1200@75 or 1280x1024@85... I just wanted to note that my nvidia have still unrestricted VESA modes.

BTW The DPI I see as an issue of LCDs. When I look at big 19" which are usually 1280x1024 it have VERY big pixels and I need to sit far from monitor to don't see everything such "squared"... Betterr would be 20" with 1600x1200 but still bigger pixels than on CRT. And I don't talk about other disadvantages of LCDs. When OLEDs come to PC monitors it will be initeresting.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

> Hehe, my 7600GS can even work in 2048x1536/32 VESA mode. But missing modes
> is known prolbem, I readed about it on other forums but don't remember

I've seen an NVIDIA with 64 MiB RAM, and via VESA it reports just 4 MiB ... don't expect modes with LFB size > 4 MiB to be accessible then

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

> I've seen an NVIDIA with 64 MiB RAM, and via VESA it reports just 4 MiB
> ... don't expect modes with LFB size > 4 MiB to be accessible then
>

Yes, this is not unusual. I never seen this on nvidia yet but e.g. mentioned i945G can allocate 64-224MB for itself but can report only 768kB or ~7,8MB for VESA LFB.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.