DOS ain't dead

A minor miracle -- The "links" pages for this website no longer has entries
for the obsolete UDMA/UDMA2, XDMA/XCDROM or QHIMEM/QDMA/QCDROM drivers, and
only a "link" to the current XMGR and UIDE drivers is shown!

Now, only the "underlining" through my name for SHSUCDX needs to be removed
as SHCDX33C has always been under continuous support by Johnson Lam and me.

XMGR and SHCDX33C are essentially done. No plan now, to give UIDE delayed
"Write Back" output (MANY more DOS "hooks" needed!), nor to put its binary-
search table in XMS (likely too slow, and few desire over a 255-MB cache!).
Better if UIDE "hooks" only Int 13h and thus remains "generic" and FAST!

So, UIDE is essentially done as well. When "future interfaces" like ADMA/
AHCI become more available on mainboards, they can then be added into UIDE.
Such changes are MUCH easier, as they now go in only ONE integrated driver.

Yes, I also think that write caching is not needed in this moment. We all know how dangerous it can be. F.e. combination of driver Hyperdsk.exe and (beautiful) game Furry of the furies always resulted in damage of game files
Anyway - there is a huge room for improvements in FreeDOS kernel for it.

But I see two points which could be improved id UIDE:
1) option for disabling the CD/DVD module
why: it doesn't work with my LiteOn DVD drive if it contains a DVD disc. (for CD discs is it OK)
(now I have a different DVD drive, so it is not so important for me... ...And this issue is not specific only for UIDE - many others CD/DVD drivers has problems with LiteOn)

2) add option for creating cache above 4MB of memory.
why: SB emulation drivers use this area (under 4MB boundary). When is it already occupied by UIDE (UIDE is loaded in config.sys and SB in autoexec.bat or "on demand"), SB emulation will not start.

---
DOS-u-akbar!

> A minor miracle -- The "links" pages for this website no longer has entries
> for the obsolete UDMA/UDMA2, XDMA/XCDROM or QHIMEM/QDMA/QCDROM drivers, and
> only a "link" to the current XMGR and UIDE drivers is shown!

I removed those URLs to avoid confusion for not-so-regulars. But why do you call it miracle?

> Now, only the "underlining" through my name for SHSUCDX needs to be removed
> as SHCDX33C has always been under continuous support by Johnson Lam and me.

Why did you not write a PM, but instead post to "Announce" (moved to "Miscellaneous" now)? Just wondering... Anyway, I fixed that.

---
Forum admin

> Yes, I also think that write caching is not needed in this moment. We all
> know how dangerous it can be. F.e. combination of driver Hyperdsk.exe and
> (beautiful) game Furry of the furies always resulted in damage of game
> files.

UIDE uses "Write Through" caching. Output data is cached but is written to
disk immediately, saving MUCH logic. Subsequent reads of the same data are
from cache (XMS memory), not from the disk, for faster speed. "Write Back"
caching is different. Writes are delayed in case the same disk sectors are
updated again quickly, as with databases, etc. This does save time. But,
it is VERY complex and RISKY, as you've noted! UIDE shall remain "simple"!

> Anyway - there is a huge room for improvements in FreeDOS kernel for it.

I agree. All other DOS kernels but ROM-DOS (bad XMS/EMS drivers!) do allow
UIDE to put its cache logic and binary-search tables in the HMA. This lets
UIDE reside in only 1.75K of upper-memory. FreeDOS does NOT permit any HMA
usage by drivers loaded through the CONFIG.SYS file. They should fix this.

> But I see two points which could be improved in UIDE:
> 1) Option for disabling the CD/DVD module. Why: it doesn't work with my
> LiteOn DVD drive if it contains a DVD disc. (for CD discs is it OK)
> Now I have a different DVD drive, so it is not so important for me ...
> ...And this issue is not specific only for UIDE - many others CD/DVD
> drivers has problems with LiteOn.

I agree. LiteOn is known as an "El Cheapo" brand, with MANY problems! So
I will not put more code in UIDE "only for them". Their problem, not mine.

> 2) add option for creating cache above 4MB of memory. Why: SB emulation
> drivers use this area (under 4MB boundary). When is it already occupied
> by UIDE (UIDE loaded by config.sys, SB by autoexec.bat or "on-demand") SB
> emulation will not start.

If SB drivers demand memory below 4-MB, can you not load them before UIDE in
CONFIG.SYS, even if "DEVLOAD" or similar must do such loading?? I had such
a scheme in QCACHE but removed it from UDMA/UIDE, since it required "playing
games" with the XMS driver! UIDE just asks for one block of XMS memory, to
remain SAFE with whatever XMS driver is used. I dare NOT "trust" them all!

Jim Hall carried out a similar campaign, purging all the old FreeDOS distributions, but he deleted the RxDOS files from IBIBLIO too, although RxDOS has nothing to do with FreeDOS, as they didn't accept it as their kernel. So one of your links to RxDOS no longer works

> Jim Hall carried out a similar campaign, purging all the old FreeDOS
> distributions, but he deleted the RxDOS files from IBIBLIO too, although
> RxDOS has nothing to do with FreeDOS, as they didn't accept it as their
> kernel. So one of your
> links
> to RxDOS no longer works

The link that rugxolo posted is still good - grab the files while you can.
http://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pc/freedos/unofficial/rxdos.old/
or
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pc/freedos/unofficial/rxdos.old/

Re: Laaca's comment about disabling CD/DVD drives, today I sent an updated
UIDE to Johnson, Lucho and others for tests. UIDE now accepts /N1 for no
hard-disks and /N2 for no CD/DVD drives. Meant for diagnostics, but they
could be used in other "special cases" as well.

> Re: Laaca's comment about disabling CD/DVD drives, today I sent an updated
> UIDE to Johnson, Lucho and others for tests. UIDE now accepts /N1 for
> no hard-disks and /N2 for no CD/DVD drives. Meant for diagnostics, but
> they could be used in other "special cases" as well.

Good, thanks! This is indeed useful.

> kernel. So one of your
> links
> to RxDOS no longer works

Now fixed.

---
Forum admin

I searched all the FreeDOS mirrors that I know about, and found RxDOS still at these:

Australia
ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/rxdos.old/

Estonia
http://freedos.pri.ee/files/distributions/rxdos/

Germany
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pc/freedos/unofficial/rxdos.old/
http://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pc/freedos/unofficial/rxdos.old/

Sweden
http://freedos.wermlandsdata.com/files/distributions/rxdos/

US
http://freedos.bbnx.net/files/distributions/unofficial/rxdos.old/

> Jim Hall carried out a similar campaign, purging all the old FreeDOS
> distributions, but he deleted the RxDOS files from IBIBLIO too, although
> RxDOS has nothing to do with FreeDOS, as they didn't accept it as their
> kernel. So one of your
> links
> to RxDOS no longer works

Apparently some people are unintentionally downloading older FreeDOS distros from online. Jim recently said someone contacted him about an old version (beta5 ?!), so that prompted him to remove any older, buggier distros from online in order to keep people up-to-date. I mean, anybody here really prefer beta 8 over 1.0++?? Anyways, read his news item about it here.

> I searched all the FreeDOS mirrors that I know about, and found RxDOS still at these:

Thanks!
But I wonder whether / when they will follow Jim Hall and, "updating" their mirrors, delete the same directories that he deleted, including RxDOS...

> > I searched all the FreeDOS mirrors that I know about, and found RxDOS
> still at these:
>
> Thanks!

You're welcome.

> But I wonder whether / when they will follow Jim Hall and, "updating"
> their mirrors, delete the same directories that he deleted, including
> RxDOS...

A riddle, to be sure, but I have a guess: For some time to come, there will be at least one site administrator who doesn't keep up with the orders from the central committee.

> A riddle, to be sure, but I have a guess: For some time to come, there
> will be at least one site administrator who doesn't keep up with the
> orders from the central committee.

It depends on whether they do automatic mirror synchronisation ("rsync") or do things "by hand". To be fair, Jim Hall did warn about his intentions and nobody on their list objected (see this message from him). If I had noticed that RxDOS was in the list, I'd write him and object. But now it's too late

> message from him). If I had noticed that RxDOS was in the list, I'd write
> him and object. But now it's too late

Same here, but I already wrote Jim to put RxDOS back online. We'll see...

I also got a reply from Mike Podanoffsky (mikeATsharecubeDOTcom), who didn't work on RxDOS for several years:
I welcome the discussion on this board on the merits of DOS and the role of RxDOS. Many of you know that RxDOS was described in a book available from Amazon.com. It will give you a very detailed look at DOS in general and RxDOS in particular. While I am sure that RxDOS has bugs, it did go through a fairly thorough DOS API testing suite. One point of concern is MASM 5.10. I welcome both further testing and ports to open source Assemblers like NASM.

He "promised" to mirror ftp.uni-bayreuth.de files at SourceForge.net soon.

---
Forum admin

> It depends on whether they do automatic mirror synchronisation ("rsync")
> or do things "by hand". To be fair, Jim Hall did warn about his intentions
> and nobody on their list objected (see
> this
> message from him). If I had noticed that RxDOS was in the list, I'd write
> him and object. But now it's too late

Strange that the ODIN distros are only the really old ones. Unless I'm blind or something, I don't see ODIN 2005 (based upon beta9r2) on there at all!

And actually, they should also have Joris' 8086 disk and Eric's three-disk distro from 1.0 which it was based upon. (Gah, if only I had more time and energy, I'd have collected sources for my distro too. But it takes too dang long, very tedious.)

EDIT: I also need to upload some versions to iBiblio for Jim Hall to replace some outdated stuff. Man, some of that stuff is really old, and I know people don't know any better who download it. :-/

---
Know your limits.h

> I also got a reply from Mike Podanoffsky (mikeATsharecubeDOTcom), who
> didn't work on RxDOS for several years:

Thank you and him!

> I welcome the discussion on this board on the merits of DOS and the
> role of RxDOS. Many of you know that RxDOS was described in a
> book available from Amazon.com. It will give you a very detailed look at
> DOS in general and RxDOS in particular. While I am sure that RxDOS has
> bugs, it did go through a fairly thorough DOS API testing suite. One point
> of concern is MASM 5.10. I welcome both further testing and ports to open
> source Assemblers like NASM.

Actually, the MASM 5.10 requirement is a "blessing in disguise", because this way some known open source purists will be kept out of RxDOS development

But the book is a problem. There are only 3 pcs. left, and the price plus the shipping isn't affordable by most people in poor countries (myself included).

> He "promised" to mirror ftp.uni-bayreuth.de files at SourceForge.net soon.

Good.

> But the book is a problem. There are only 3 pcs. left, and the price plus
> the shipping isn't affordable by most people in poor countries (myself
> included).

A used book in "very good" condition is available for only $3.46. But S&H to Europe will be expensive. Amazon.de has one for "only" EUR 21,23.

Before you ask: I don't have that book and don't know, if it's worth the money.

---
Forum admin

> Eric's
> three-disk distro from 1.0 which it was based upon. (Gah, if only I

This link gives error 404 ("not found").

---
Forum admin

> A used book in "very good" condition is available for only $3.46. But S&H
> to Europe will be expensive. Amazon.de has one for "only" EUR 21,23.

Shipping the book from North America to Europe would be at least $20. Add the cost of issuing a dollar cheque and the cost of sending it by post and the total cost easily becomes more than an order of magnitude higher than those $3.46!

> Strange that the ODIN distros are only the really old ones. Unless I'm
> blind or something, I don't see ODIN
> 2005 (based upon beta9r2) on there at all!

Is this it?
http://www.os2warp.org/odin/2005/index.html

> Is this it?
> http://www.os2warp.org/odin/2005/index.html

No, that's some Windows (32-bit?) emulation for OS/2. Here, I'm refering to Steve Nikolas' "One Disk INstaller".

> This link gives error 404 ("not found").

Okay, must be due to Eric's impending site going down. Oh well. Fixed links and mirrored here: http://rugxulo.googlepages.com/threediskettes-freedos10.zip

How about these:

ftp://ftp.ens-cachan.fr/mirror/FreeDOS/files/distributions/1disk/
or
http://webb.ens-cachan.fr/ftp/mirror/FreeDOS/files/distributions/1disk/

http://odin.fdos.org/odin2005/

> http://odin.fdos.org/odin2005/

That's what Rugxulo already wrote in No More "Oldies"! (IBIBLIO purged) -- ODIN 2005 needed!

---
Forum admin

> > http://odin.fdos.org/odin2005/
>
> That's what Rugxulo already wrote in No More "Oldies"! (IBIBLIO
> purged) -- ODIN 2005 needed!

Well, there it is, unpurged.

> Same here, but I already wrote Jim to put RxDOS back online. We'll
> see...

RxDOS is back at ibiblio.org. Thanks Jim!

---
Forum admin