DOS ain't dead - release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Laaca

Czech republic,
26.08.2015, 20:15

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 (Announce)

Yesterday was released the release candidate for new major version of Freepascal.
The download package is available also for DOS using 32-bit extender cwsdpmi.
The release docs mention that also windows-realmode DOS crosscompiler is also available but I haven't found the needed archive.
In future will be released also DOS32-realmodeDOS crosscompiler what is absolutely cool.

The new Freepascal 3.0 looks promising. The infamous bug 18113 is finaly fixed so the use in DOS should be safe.
The only (but important) disappointing thing is the fact that the package with IDE is not available yet (I don't know why) and we have only commandline compiler.

---
DOS-u-akbar!

marcov

26.08.2015, 21:34

@ Laaca

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

> Yesterday was released the release candidate for new major version of
> Freepascal.
> The download package is available also for DOS using 32-bit extender
> cwsdpmi.
> The release docs mention that also windows-realmode DOS crosscompiler is
> also available but I haven't found the needed archive.

Maybe he didn't generate it for the RC1 since it takes 5-7 hours to build due to the old way of smartlinking (calling watcom's assembler for every function)

> In future will be released also DOS32-realmodeDOS crosscompiler what is
> absolutely cool.

More good news; this week Nikolay reported that the internal linker for 16-bit is coming along nicely, and the system is initially watcom-free:

Early this week:

The i8086-msdos internal linker has improved greatly and now produces
working executables (hello world, fpctris, samegame) in all memory
models. There are still issues with some larger programs - probably
related to the use of the 'aword' type, or maybe I got some obscure omf
relocation wrong (ouch), but we're really close now, until we don't need
anything from Open Watcom. Crosscompilation from djgpp or darwin should
become a breeze now :)

later added

.... found and fixed the last remaining bug
and now the internal linker is just as good as wlink in terms of
testsuite failures in _all_ memory models. We're officially watcom-free
now! :)

This brings 16-bit compilation on a real dos system closer (though as i386-go32v2->i8086-dos crosscompiler)

That work is in the development 3.1.x version though.

glennmcc North Jackson, Ohio (USA), 27.08.2015, 02:19 (edited by Rugxulo, 29.08.2015, 06:48) @ marcov	release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 Post reply
	It really is great to see that so many of us are still coding for 100% pure DOS DOS ain't dead !!! :)

Rugxulo

Usono,
29.08.2015, 07:26

@ marcov

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

> > The release docs mention that also windows-realmode DOS crosscompiler is
> > also available but I haven't found the needed archive.
>
> Maybe he didn't generate it for the RC1 since it takes 5-7 hours to build
> due to the old way of smartlinking (calling watcom's assembler for every
> function)

I haven't tried that piece (and only minimally otherwise), but presumably this is it:

ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/pascal/fpc/beta/3.0.0-rc1/i386-win32/fpc-3.0.0rc1.i8086-msdos.exe

> > In future will be released also DOS32-realmodeDOS crosscompiler what is
> > absolutely cool.

Even though I don't understand their difficulty with doing that already, I've been occasionally using the Win32 snapshot under HX.

> More good news; this week Nikolay reported that the internal linker for
> 16-bit is coming along nicely, and the system is initially watcom-free:
>
> This brings 16-bit compilation on a real dos system closer (though as
> i386-go32v2->i8086-dos crosscompiler)
>
> That work is in the development 3.1.x version though.

I'm basically giving up on my stupid MetaDOS (too tedious). Well, I will finish 0.2 very very soon and release it (once I add a few more direct links to FreeDOS "BASE" and "UTIL"). A month ago I asked for feedback (from a few select dudes) but got no testers. It was initially only pre-published (informally via DropBox) for QEMU-Windows dude to test/bugfix the (then-broken) networking code (which he did fix, thankfully).

I assume it's too kludgy or too minimal. Maybe it's not useful (enough?). Dunno. I also assume someone somewhere will eventually tell me it's too brittle or wastes too much bandwidth. Meh. I honestly don't know, but I still thought it was worth doing.

Anyways ... one of the "tests" I semi-frequently run there is downloading /v31/ ppcross8086.exe snapshot (from mirror). I was originally going to compile fpctris and samegame, but those aren't easy to test non-interactively. (But I kept their .EXEs in %BOOT%:\extras , so don't worry.) So, for lack of a better example, I just used my Befunge-93 interpreter (now more "TP" idiomatic, I hope) and homegrown test suite. Yes, it even works now without NASM, WLIB, or WLINK.

I know that isn't saying much, but there ya go.

roytam 29.08.2015, 13:38 (edited by Rugxulo, 15.09.2015, 01:10) @ Rugxulo	release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 Post reply
	I still can't get "Getting ppcross8086 compiles things". I wonder if there is guide for that.

nickysn 30.08.2015, 22:55 (edited by Rugxulo, 15.09.2015, 01:11) @ roytam	release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 Post reply
	> I still can't get "Getting ppcross8086 compiles things". I wonder if there > is guide for that. Which one? The fpc trunk snapshot or the 3.0.0rc1 release?

roytam 02.09.2015, 05:40 (edited by Rugxulo, 15.09.2015, 01:11) @ nickysn	release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 Post reply
	> > I still can't get "Getting ppcross8086 compiles things". I wonder if > there > > is guide for that. > > Which one? The fpc trunk snapshot or the 3.0.0rc1 release? the trunk compiled package from ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at mirror. once I run it I got an error that says system unit is compiled for another memory model.

Rugxulo

Usono,
02.09.2015, 08:27

@ roytam

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

> > > I still can't get "Getting ppcross8086 compiles things". I wonder if
> > there is guide for that.
> >
> > Which one? The fpc trunk snapshot or the 3.0.0rc1 release?
>
> the trunk compiled package from ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at mirror.
> once I run it I got an error that says system unit is compiled for another
> memory model.

Default is small model. Specify another one with e.g. "-WmLarge" or "-WmCompact".

marcov

29.08.2015, 16:09

@ Rugxulo

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

> > > The release docs mention that also windows-realmode DOS crosscompiler
> is
> > > also available but I haven't found the needed archive.
> >
> > Maybe he didn't generate it for the RC1 since it takes 5-7 hours to
> build
> > due to the old way of smartlinking (calling watcom's assembler for every
> > function)
>
> I haven't tried that piece (and only minimally otherwise), but presumably
> this is it:
>
> ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/pascal/fpc/beta/3.0.0-rc1/i386-win32/fpc-3.0.0rc1.i8086-msdos.exe

Ah, ok in win32 since it is a win32 hosted compiler. That should be it.

> Even though I don't understand their difficulty with doing that already,
> I've been occasionally using the Win32 snapshot under HX.

watcom tools (with watcom dosextender) didn't work when called from go32v2.

> Anyways ... one of the "tests" I semi-frequently run there is downloading
> /v31/ ppcross8086.exe snapshot (from mirror). I was originally going to
> compile fpctris and samegame, but those aren't easy to test
> non-interactively. (But I kept their .EXEs in %BOOT%:\extras , so don't
> worry.) So, for lack of a better example, I just used my Befunge-93
> interpreter (now more "TP" idiomatic, I hope) and homegrown test suite.
> Yes, it even works now without NASM, WLIB, or WLINK.
>
> I know that isn't saying much, but there ya go.

Thanks for the confirmation.

nickysn 30.08.2015, 19:02 @ marcov	release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 Post reply
	> > I haven't tried that piece (and only minimally otherwise), but > presumably > > this is it: > > > > > ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/pascal/fpc/beta/3.0.0-rc1/i386-win32/fpc-3.0.0rc1.i8086-msdos.exe > > Ah, ok in win32 since it is a win32 hosted compiler. That should be it. Yes, this is it. Here are all the "official" 3.0.0-rc1 releases: http://wiki.freepascal.org/DOS#3.0.0rc1

Rugxulo

Usono,
22.10.2015, 15:19

@ Laaca

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

>> Yesterday was released the release candidate for new major version of
>> Freepascal.

> October 21th, 2015
>
> FPC 3.0.0-rc2 has been released!
>
> Most important change since the first release candidate is a change in the
> unicode resource-string handling. Also there is a new Windows to Android
> cross-compiler installer.

dos300r2.zip (contains all binaries and packages, 18354 KB)
df300r2.zip (additionally contains source zip files, 41772 KB)
fpc-3.0.0rc2.i386-win32.cross.i8086-msdos.exe (22273 KB)

Laaca

Czech republic,
22.10.2015, 19:35

@ Rugxulo

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

Nice!
But my god, why it does not contain the IDE?
I even wrote a bugreport about that (here) but the IDE is still missing.

---
DOS-u-akbar!

Rugxulo

Usono,
05.11.2015, 03:34

@ Laaca

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

> Nice!
> But my god, why it does not contain the IDE?
> I even wrote a bugreport about that
> (here) but the
> IDE is still missing.

IDE? "It Doesn't Exist" :-P

Dunno, MarcoV is the one who brags about the IDE so much. Honestly, I never use it. But there is no Go32v2 maintainer, so I think it's left to whomever cares enough, which is probably Pierre (but I don't know his email).

If you checked the ppcross8086 snapshots recently, you'd also notice a mistake where the Tiny model build's .ZIP is no longer 3 MB but instead 40 MB. A reluctant download shows that he's accidentally including ppcrossx64 (and libs) along with it. Probably just a makefile bug.

Again, I don't have Pierre's email, but I presume you can contact him directly, Laaca.

Rugxulo

Usono,
10.11.2015, 20:09

@ Rugxulo

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

> If you checked the ppcross8086
> snapshots
> recently, you'd also notice a mistake where the Tiny model build's .ZIP is
> no longer 3 MB but instead 40 MB. A reluctant download shows that
> he's accidentally including ppcrossx64 (and libs) along with it. Probably
> just a makefile bug.
>
> Again, I don't have Pierre's email, but I presume you can contact him
> directly, Laaca.

Well, since we all tend to be a bit disorganized, I decided to weakly try to find his email address and send him a quick message. No explicit response, but the problem seems fixed now.

> fpc-3.1.1-WmTiny.msdos.zip 3153 KB 11/10/2015 4:15:00 AM

P.S. But I didn't even mention the IDE to him, presumably patching GDB is much harder.

Rugxulo Usono, 12.11.2015, 00:23 @ Rugxulo	release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 Post reply
	> Well, since we all tend to be a bit disorganized, I decided to weakly try > to find his email address and send him a quick message. No explicit > response, but the problem seems fixed now. > > > fpc-3.1.1-WmTiny.msdos.zip 3153 KB 11/10/2015 4:15:00 AM Sigh, false alarm. The bug is back. > fpc-3.1.1-WmTiny.msdos.zip 41473 KB 11/11/2015 5:18:00 AM

Laaca

Czech republic,
12.11.2015, 19:45

@ Rugxulo

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

I don't have the Pierre's email either. Well, on the Freepascal page is mentioned some old address muller@janus.u-strasbg.fr but I doubt it works more.
However I wrote mail to another maintainer - Florian Klaempfl. But I did not get any response.

I tried to compile the IDE from sources but it has some exotic build mechanism - there is not MAKEFILE and no MAKEFILE.FPC files but some FPMAKE.PAS. I can compile it into FPMAKE.EXE but when I run it it complains about missing dependencies.

---
DOS-u-akbar!

Laaca

Czech republic,
14.11.2015, 16:58

@ Laaca

release candidate of Freepascal 3.0

Post reply

Email I got from Florian Klaempfl :-(

"I didn't use go32v2 for probably over 10 years and probably forgot
almost everything about DOS 32 bit extender programming :). FPC is a
community project mainly run by volounteers and apparently nobody is
interested anymore in fixing and building the go32v2 IDE with GDB. If it
is really important for you, you should try to look yourself into the
problems and fix them."

---
DOS-u-akbar!

Rugxulo Usono, 14.11.2015, 21:50 @ Laaca	release candidate of Freepascal 3.0 Post reply
	Don't you remember that 2.6.4 eventually got a build of FPGDB.ZIP, which includes some patches, so just use that. It's not like you need 3.0.0 for anything specific, do you?

Laaca

Czech republic,
19.11.2015, 17:25

@ Rugxulo

GOOD NEWS FOR EVERYONE

Post reply

I got the Pierre's address, we changed few emails so he felt motivated and he fixed some compilation issuess.

So in the result - we now have the DOS Freepascal IDE available :-)
ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/pub/fpc/beta/3.0.0-rc2/go32v2/separate/

---
DOS-u-akbar!

Rugxulo

Usono,
20.11.2015, 02:38

@ Laaca

GOOD NEWS FOR EVERYONE

Post reply

> I got the Pierre's address, we changed few emails so he felt motivated and
> he fixed some compilation issuess.
>
> So in the result - we now have the DOS Freepascal IDE available :-)
> ftp://ftp.unavailable.org

I didn't mean to hide him from you, obviously. But I wanted to focus on one bug report at a time, so as to not confuse the issue.

I emailed him on Nov. 7, but he didn't get back to me until the 16th. He said he was "offline for a whole week". He claims the ppcross8086/Tiny problem might've been due to failing win64 build, but that it seemed fine, but asked if I'd noticed it more than once. So yes, I told him it was a reoccurring problem and not just a fluke.

I've been checking the FTP every day or two since then, and so far so good. So he probably fixed it. (Of course, I can't check right now because the FTP is temporarily unavailable, for whatever reason.)

Laaca, you're more in love with IDEs than I am. But I suppose it's still nice to have the option. :-P

Rugxulo

Usono,
26.11.2015, 06:46

@ Laaca

GOOD NEWS FOR EVERYONE

Post reply

> So in the result - we now have the DOS Freepascal IDE available :-)
> ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/pub/fpc/beta/3.0.0-rc2/go32v2/separate/

This build of the IDE has no debugging support (GDB). Didn't you notice? Not that I care, of course. :-P

BTW, another curious thing is the unannounced change (or at least I'd forgotten) that it now uses an internal (assembler?? and) linker. So I can't find any libraries (*.a), only larger objects (*.o), which presumably have more info embedded somehow.

P.S. I also accidentally see that 3.0.0 final has been released, but I'm not sure whether we should continue discussion here or (more likely) start a new thread.