DOS ain't dead - FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

liljames2k

13.11.2021, 20:50

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not! (Users)

Hello. Im using FreeDOS on my old AMD Sempron 140 PC with a 120 GB S-ATA SSD. 8gb DDR3 RAM (2x4gb dual channel), 1 Core 2,7 GHz CPU.

FreeDOS 1.2 and 1.3 RC4 works fine, but not a Single Classic DOS Game like Wolfenstein 3D or PoliceQuest is working! After i start the Game it crashes back to DOS, or it got Stuck or there is a I/O error/locate error of the files.

Is it the SSD, the CPU or the RAM that make troubles? I tried my SSD with an IDE Adapter but same results...

Laaca

Czech republic,
13.11.2021, 22:51

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

You provided too few information about your DOS environment. I suppose that you did a clean install of FreeDOS and you have not modified the files FDCONFIG.SYS and FDAUTO.BAT
It seems to be some misunderstanding between your hardware and memory management (the UMB/HMA/XMS/EMS stuff)
For first step try to launch some game or application which does not use sound but only graphic mode.
If you have the possibility to select several memory configuration options during boot try them.
Or you can show us your FDCONFIG.SYS and FDAUTO.BAT files.

---
DOS-u-akbar!

Berlin, Germany,
13.11.2021, 23:35

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> Hello. Im using FreeDOS on my old AMD Sempron 140 PC with a 120 GB S-ATA
> SSD. 8gb DDR3 RAM (2x4gb dual channel), 1 Core 2,7 GHz CPU.

The Sempron 140 may be from 2009 already, but that's not very old in terms of DOS. :-D

> FreeDOS 1.2 and 1.3 RC4 works fine, but not a Single Classic DOS Game like
> Wolfenstein 3D or PoliceQuest is working! After i start the Game it crashes
> back to DOS, or it got Stuck or there is a I/O error/locate error of the
> files.

Please make a list like this:
Game name | Result ---------------+--------------------------- Wolfenstein 3D | Crashes to DOS immediately Police Quest | Hangs after a few seconds ??? | Doesn't find file name.ext

---
Forum admin

Rugxulo Usono, 14.11.2021, 06:37 @ liljames2k	FDOS works fine, but Old Games not! Post reply
	> FreeDOS 1.2 and 1.3 RC4 works fine, but not a Single Classic DOS Game like > Wolfenstein 3D or PoliceQuest is working! After i start the Game it crashes > back to DOS, or it got Stuck or there is a I/O error/locate error of the > files. Don't load JEMM386 at all, see if that helps.

liljames2k

20.11.2021, 05:48

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

GAMES RESULTS LIST:
All Games are placed in C:\GAMES\ in their own Folders...

Game name | Result ---------------------+--------------------------- ALIEN BREED | WORKS FINE! FATE OF ATLANTIS | Shows Error: "UNABLE TO FIND GAMEFILE "ATLANTIS.000" (But its there!) CHAOS ENGINE | Intro works but stucks on Loading Screen... COMANCHE | Shows Error: JemmEx: exeption 0D occured at... (in safe mode it crashes!) DOOM | Shows Error: "Problem EXECing DOOM.EXE! Probably not in same directory!" or "DOS/4GW Game mode intermiinate." and jumps back to DOS... DOOM 2 | Same errors like previous Doom... ELITE | WORKS FINE! EMMANUELLE | Shows Error: "I/O error 01, PC=9BF9, Program aborted." GODS | Shows Error: "fatal error - unable to locate .EXE file" COMMANDER KEEN 6 | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its there!) LEISURE SUIT LARRY | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its there!) LEISURE SUIT LARRY 2 | Shows Error: "Can't load RESOURCE.MAP!" (But its there!) LEISURE SUIT LARRY 3 | Not starting and jumps back to DOS MANIAC MANSION | Shows Error: "Unable to find file 00.lfl" (But its there!) MECH WARRIOR | Blackscreen... MS FLIGHT SIM 4 | Not starting and jumps back to DOS MONKEY ISLAND | Shows Error: "Unable to find '000.lfl'" (But its there!) PAC MAN/PC MAN | WORKS FINE ! POLICE QUEST | Shows Error: JemmEx: exeption 0D occured at... (in safe mode it freezes!) POLICE QUEST 2 | Not starting and jumps back to DOS FIRST SAMURAI | Shows Error: "Disk Error!!..." SHUFFLE PUCK COFFEE | Shows Error: "No Disk or wrong Drive..." TEST DRIVE 2 | Shows Error: JemmEx: exeption 0D occured at... (in safe mode it jumps back to DOS!) WHEEL OF FORTUNE | shows a glitch and won't start. WOLFENSTEIN 3D | system reboots...

SYSTEM

AMD Sempron 140 2700 Mhz DDR 1066Mhz 6GB Dual Channel ON BOARD GPU UNKNOWN S-ATA SSD 120 GB in AHCI Mode FreeDOS 1.3 RC4

Things i already tried:

Used a IDE Adapter for the SSD in Native IDE, RAID and AHCI Mode. Tried just a Single Ram in Single Channel. Used all Modes of FDOS: MENU 1 - Load FreeDOS with JEMMEX, no EMS (most UMBs), max RAM free MENU 2 - Load FreeDOS with JEMM386 (Expanded Memory) MENU 3 - Load FreeDOS low with some drivers (Safe Mode) MENU 4 - Load FreeDOS without drivers (Emergency Mode)

Nothing works... still same Problems!

and i can't post the FDCONFIG.SYS and FDAUTO.BAT here, because there are not accepted words in it, for this forum. but it was the standard config from the clean install, so i make no changes!

Zyzzle

20.11.2021, 09:03

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

Try booting the system with only an XMS manager loaded. Use Himem.sys, or do not load JEMM386 with any EMS memory allocation (the option jemm386 /noems)

You also need a DPMI extender to run many games. The files DOS4GW.exe , PMODE.exe, and d3x.exe are all DPMI memory extenders, which most later DOS games require. These files should be in the PATH of your Autoexec.bat file.

Also, be sure to unzip all games with the command pkunzip -d which will expand the full directory structure. I think many files can't be located because these games expect to find files in subdirectories, and those aren't created unless you specifically decompress the games with the -d option. Just putting all the files in the archive into the same directory won't work.

mceric

Germany,
20.11.2021, 11:25

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

Some ideas: Read the DOS32A docs and learn how to start the games which use DOS4G with DOS32A instead. Also, consider using the suitable HIMEM options to limit the amount of visible memory, a few games may want to see less than 32 MB. Make sure to use no long file names for your game folders, no spaces etc. and as mentioned by others before, make sure that the various DOS extenders used by the games are in your PATH. Consider checking whether they are the newest versions. I notice that many of your games complain about being unable to access files. Maybe you have write-protected some files or folders which the games would like to access? Or maybe you have copied them from a CD or DVD and they happen to be write-protected because of that? As many of your errors are about general protection faults (exception 0D) in JEMMEX, could you collect the exact error messages for those? Of course, you should try to run all of those games WITHOUT JEMMEX: Only load HIMEM instead. But it would be good to know which types of GPF you get, maybe JEMMEX can be made to be more "unprotected" to tolerate some of the things that the games try to do. Last but not least, use PCISLEEP /L to find out which graphics you have :-) Thanks for testing!

---
FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...

Rugxulo Usono, 21.11.2021, 14:35 @ mceric	FDOS works fine, but Old Games not! Post reply
	> I notice that many of your games complain about being unable to access files. > Maybe you have write-protected some files or folders which the games would > like to access? Or maybe you have copied them from a CD or DVD and they > happen to be write-protected because of that? You mean they should do something like this? Sure, maybe. `c: cd\doom attrib /s -r -h`

Japheth

Germany (South),
20.11.2021, 11:27

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

Hello,

> FATE OF ATLANTIS | Shows Error: "UNABLE TO FIND GAMEFILE "ATLANTIS.000"
> GODS | Shows Error: "fatal error - unable to locate .EXE
> COMMANDER KEEN 6 | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> LEISURE SUIT LARRY | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> LEISURE SUIT LARRY 2 | Shows Error: "Can't load RESOURCE.MAP!" (But its

looks like many games are unable to open a file ...
first step: check the FILES=nnn setting in FDCONFIG.SYS - should be hardly a problem, but who knows ...

---
MS-DOS forever!

tom

Germany (West),
20.11.2021, 12:09
(edited by tom, 20.11.2021, 13:34)

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> Things i already tried:
>
> Used a IDE Adapter for the SSD in Native IDE, RAID and AHCI Mode.> Tried just a Single Ram in Single Channel. > Used all Modes of FDOS: > MENU 1 - Load FreeDOS with JEMMEX, no EMS (most UMBs), max RAM free > MENU 2 - Load FreeDOS with JEMM386 (Expanded Memory) > MENU 3 - Load FreeDOS low with some drivers (Safe Mode) > MENU 4 - Load FreeDOS without drivers (Emergency Mode)

there is one mode definitively missing: HIMEM only.

try
CONFIG.SYS with *only*

DOS=HIGH
device=c:\FDOS\HIMEM.EXE

edited to add: or remove all JEMMEX lines

and empty AUTOEXEC.BAT

without HIMEM, KERNEL+COMMAND take ~140KB, leaving only 500K
which is plausible not enough for any game.

jhall

20.11.2021, 18:30
(edited by Rugxulo, 20.11.2021, 19:43)

@ liljames2k

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

I think some of the errors are because you probably are running the games from some other directory. Not being able to find game files is a big clue here.

I don't know what to suggest except to run the game from the game's directory. Many DOS games expected that.

For example, I have Tomb Raider 1 (demo) installed on my FreeDOS machine. If I go into C:\TOMBRAID and run TOMB, the game runs fine. If I set my PATH to include C:\TOMBRAID, then back up to the C:\ directory and run TOMB from there, the game tries to start but the aborts with "Cannot find file 'data\titleh.pcx':No such file or directory." So it's not that Tomb Raider doesn't run on FreeDOS, but that I have to be in the Tomb Raider directory to play it. And that was common on DOS.

Also, I've recorded gameplay videos for the FreeDOS YouTube channel using several of the listed games, all running on FreeDOS, and they worked fine. Here's the list:

Commander Keen 1
Commander Keen 4
Duke Nukem 3D
Duke Nukem 1
Little Willy
Doom
Freedoom
Oregon Trail
Raptor
Number Munchers
Ford Driving Simulator
Golden Flute IV (developed by a 12 year old)
Dark Forces
Blood

And newer DOS games (not classic era games, but games developed more recently for DOS):

RetroFuel
Acronia
Double Pacman
Post Apocalyptic Petra
Dr Mind
Lacewing

And I haven't recorded videos for them yet, but I recently played (successfully) Tomb Raider 1 and a newer DOS game called RCross that Vojtech shared on the FreeDOS Facebook group.

jhall

20.11.2021, 18:34

@ jhall

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

A lot of folks who didn't grow up with DOS expect DOS will "just work" with whatever software or games. And for most programs, FreeDOS does work fine. But like any DOS, you sometimes need to tweak your config to get things to work.

It was not uncommon to have a special config for each game. In the early 1990s, I had an MS-DOS boot floppy with a custom CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT that was just to run X-Wing (I think it was EMS only?) and another MS-DOS boot floppy to run other games. It was all about saving memory so the game could get as much as it could.

That's not to say that FreeDOS is perfect. For the life of me, I cannot get the Wolfenstein 3D installer (1wolf14.zip) to run on FreeDOS. Even with nothing loaded, INSTALL.EXE aborts with "Runtime error 200 at 0774:0091"

tom

Germany (West),
20.11.2021, 19:04

@ jhall

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> I think that's a very narrow view. The reality is that a lot of the
> "classic" (say, '486 or earlier) hardware is hard to find - at least
> in working condition. And dedicating an entire machine to FreeDOS .
> So most people run FreeDOS on modern hardware (if they dedicate
> hardware to it at all) or in a virtual machine (more common).

FreeDOS (and MSDOS) kernel and command are in no way hardware
dependent; exclude them from bug searching if just every game fails.
single failure might be possible, but not *every* game.

there are 2, more or less, 'hardware' dependencies:

HIMEM tries to find out how much and where memory exists.

(J)EMM386 tries to find where are regions in A0000-F0000 occupied by
hardware; and often enough got this wrong (not counting the bazillions
of times where it got it right as these cases are not reported on the
internet;).

it might be the BIOS reporting available memory above 1MB in a strange way,
misunderstood by HIMEM/EMM386, leading to trouble.

or it might be EMM386 misunderstanding some adapter memory
requirements in the a000-f000 region.

just my 5 cents.

crossposting this to bttr-software.

Tom

tom

Germany (West),
20.11.2021, 19:14

@ tom

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

in addition:

> FATE OF ATLANTIS | Shows Error: "UNABLE TO FIND GAMEFILE "ATLANTIS.000"
> GODS | Shows Error: "fatal error - unable to locate .EXE
> COMMANDER KEEN 6 | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> LEISURE SUIT LARRY | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> LEISURE SUIT LARRY 2 | Shows Error: "Can't load RESOURCE.MAP!" (But its

AFAIK some caching software (UIDE, UHDD, ...) is loaded by default, and the ((expletive) reporter wouldn't tell).

And it could well be that this disk cache is broken.

if the disk caching software is caching (through XMS memory) in non-existing memory, things would look fairly similar.

tom

Germany (West),
20.11.2021, 19:28

@ tom

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

last addition:

IMHO there is a good chance that XMS memory is broken; possibly because the BIOS reports free memory in a way that HIMEM/JEMM386X misinterprets.

at least this would be cool to know.

now it would be cool to have a memory test (at least a minimal test) to test XMS memory integrity on this machine.

early HIMEM versions had an integrated test

HIMEM /T
that would test this integrity by filling all memory with a known pattern, then checking for this pattern. unfortunately, this ability was lost when assembly programmers took over :-(

Khusraw

Bucharest, Romania,
21.11.2021, 16:54
(edited by Rugxulo, 21.11.2021, 19:09)

@ tom

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> in addition:
>
> > FATE OF ATLANTIS | Shows Error: "UNABLE TO FIND GAMEFILE
> "ATLANTIS.000"
> > GODS | Shows Error: "fatal error - unable to locate .EXE
> > COMMANDER KEEN 6 | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> > LEISURE SUIT LARRY | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> > LEISURE SUIT LARRY 2 | Shows Error: "Can't load RESOURCE.MAP!" (But its
>
> AFAIK some caching software (UIDE, UHDD, ...) is loaded by default, and the
> ((expletive) reporter wouldn't tell).
>
> And it could well be that this disk cache is broken.
>
> if the disk caching software is caching (through XMS memory) in
> non-existing memory, things would look fairly similar.

Jack asked me to convey the following message: [minor adjustments -- ed.]

> Tom is [a helpful FreeDOS contributor] as usual! If UIDE/UHDD were
> caching in non-existent XMS memory, blame [FreeDOS]'s "pet" HIMEMX which
> PROVIDES XMS to my caching drivers! UIDE/UHDD [and that IS still what
> they are called despite Ehlert's later [kindness] in this thread!] in fact
> use the XMS manager (1) for the XMS memory they need, and (2) for "A20"
> enables/disables that must be "managed" ONLY by the XMS manager, as the
> XMS specs describe. NO other XMS calls and so NO CHANCE for the often
> BOTCHED-UP HIMEMX to interfere with my drivers! The new UHDD now does
> every XMS move with its OWN code, since its old noncached routines that
> used the XMS manager are now GONE! NO exceptions, not any MORE, for I
> never "trusted" HIMEMX at all! THAT was why I wrote QHIMEM, now XMGR!

> And I DARE any [FreeDOS volunteers] to prove that logic has EVER failed since
> being written for QHIMEM 14 YEARS ago!! I OBEYED all R.B.I.L. "rules"
> for "E820/E801" XMS memory calls, added in BIOS programs by 1995, since
> SOMEBODY knew mainboards with over 64-MB of XMS would show-up sooner or
> later! Microsoft and Japheth (wished to FOLLOW Microsoft) IGNORED the
> new calls, until HIMEMX/JEMMEX FAILED with Japheth's new 2020 mainboard
> using "fragmented" XMS, and he HAD to update those drivers to "save his
> OWN [rear-end]"! Where would you all have been, if he did NOT buy his
> new mainboard, and some [FreeDOS] USER "stumbled across" HIMEMX's erors [ha!] ??
> "Running around like chickens with your HEADS cut off", as in 2016 when
> Dimitrios got HIT by Pemberton's "EAh" ERROR in HIMEMX, as you can read
> on FD-User!! If I hadn't spoken "HERESY!" in two words -- Try XMGR --
> you all might STILL be "running around" like that!! Pemberton FAILED
> to fully test HIMEMX, and Mateusz Viste FAILED to "catch" that error!!

> In any event, I thank my "good friend" Ehlert for CONFIRMING my opinion
> of having NOTHING more to do with [FreeDOS] nor its users, who posted NOT
> ONE WORD re: the new UHDD driver I sent to Eric Auer around 1-Nov-2021.
> If Jim Hall gets 17 posts on FD-User, re: a minor error in his reminder
> program, while I get NOTHING re: a MUCH better UHDD, [God bless] them
> ALL!" as my mother would have said! They can now find someone ELSE to
> "HELP!" with that [Free/libre] system, still [welcoming patches]
> after 27 YEARS of so-called "development"!!

tom

Germany (West),
21.11.2021, 17:17

@ Khusraw

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> > in addition:
> >
> > > FATE OF ATLANTIS | Shows Error: "UNABLE TO FIND GAMEFILE
> > "ATLANTIS.000"
> > > GODS | Shows Error: "fatal error - unable to locate
> .EXE
> > > COMMANDER KEEN 6 | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> > > LEISURE SUIT LARRY | Shows Error: "can't open GAMEMAPS.CK6" (But its
> > > LEISURE SUIT LARRY 2 | Shows Error: "Can't load RESOURCE.MAP!" (But
> its
> >
> > AFAIK some caching software (UIDE, UHDD, ...) is loaded by default, and
> the
> > ((expletive) reporter wouldn't tell).
> >
> > And it could well be that this disk cache is broken.
> >
> > if the disk caching software is caching (through XMS memory) in
> > non-existing memory, things would look fairly similar.
>
> Jack asked me to convey the following message:
>
> > Tom is only "Blowing SMOKE" (or BULL****) as usual! If UIDE/UHDD were
> > caching in non-existent XMS memory, blame FleaDOS's "pet" HIMEMX which
> > PROVIDES XMS to my caching drivers!

good old Jack. he always takes the next opportunity to be really pissed ;-)

In no way did I suggest that the glorious UIDE/UHDD is broken.

I very much suspect strange behavior by HIMEM, JEMM386, or both.

and IFF (and that's a big if) JEMM386 would map UMB into an area that is also used by some adapter (network card, ...) things might break in interesting ways.

the rest of his rambling doesn't deserve an answer.

mceric

Germany,
21.11.2021, 18:35

@ Khusraw

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

Hi everybody,

as said, I would rather assume that the problem of FreeDOS is NOT loading a cache. But it is always good to load as few drivers as possible when trying to narrow down what might cause problems with the games.

Which includes skipping caches, if any are loaded (UHDD, LBACACHE, CDRCACHE, etc.), in spite of those being very unlikely to cause problems. As well as skipping LFN drivers (LFNDOS, DOSLFN) to not be tempted to use non-DOS style file/directory names (with spaces etc.) and other odd things.

As Jim had written, maybe the user just had forgotten to first change to the directory of the game before starting it? That might explain why a game fails to find some files.

And as Rugxulo and I have written, maybe the user has copied games from CD/DVD and left the files/directories read-only, which could confuse some games.

But I do recommend loading XMS drivers to have enough memory free and because modern games like to have memory beyond 1 MB. To actually recommend Jack's software as part of the solution: HIMEM (or JEMM386, JEMMEX etc.) may have issues with memory detection or A20 control. Note that there can also be TOO MUCH memory free. You can limit XMS to 15, 31 or 63 MB, for example, or to less than 2 GB, to avoid sign overflows. Classic DOS games never expected computers to ever have more than 4 GB of RAM and even much lower amounts can start to confuse them.

And: Try using Jack's XMGR instead of HIMEM! It helps to compare different driver brands and your BIOS or hardware may have properties which confuse HIMEM, while XMGR might be able to see through the confusion.

Also try to avoid any EMM/UMB drivers, those add complexity and possibilities to fail which you do not want to add until after you have proven that the games do work in general. You can also use various XMGR, HIMEM etc. command line options to modify A20 control settings and memory detection settings, in case the BIOS reports something misleading. Read the docs about available options, or at least read the /? screens :-)

---
FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...

Zyzzle

22.11.2021, 06:18

@ mceric

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> As Jim had written, maybe the user just had forgotten to first change to
> the directory of the game before starting it? That might explain why a game
> fails to find some files.
>
> And as Rugxulo and I have written, maybe the user has copied games from
> CD/DVD and left the files/directories read-only, which could confuse some
> games.

> And: Try using Jack's XMGR instead of HIMEM! It helps to compare different
> driver brands and your BIOS or hardware may have properties which confuse
> HIMEM, while XMGR might be able to see through the confusion.

Above are excellent suggestions. It's probably something "easy" to fix. So many games not loading is very abnormal.

Also, dare I say it, try running good old MS-DOS instead of FreeDOS, with a minimal CONFIG.SYS and nothing extraneous loaded in AUTOEXEC.BAT, except perhaps a PATH statement. Do not load an EMS manager in CONFIG.SYS. If a game needs EMS, run EMSMAGIC, which is loadable from the commandline, and uninstallable at will.

R. Loew provided a very good LIMITMEM utility, which if loaded BEFORE himem.sys limits total system memory to the specified amount.

Rugxulo

Usono,
21.11.2021, 19:03

@ Khusraw

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> Jack asked me to convey the following message:

Please don't convey any messages from him unless 100% technical in nature.

Jack's account here is supposedly deactivated by his own choice. I'm tired of dealing with his constant (and unjust) wrath.

I'm going to go back and delete any sentences of his which are purely non-technical. Apologies to Tom for being the "Scapegoat of the Week" (tm).

As Jim always says, let's be productive. :flower:

Japheth

Germany (South),
22.11.2021, 14:36

@ Rugxulo

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> I'm going to go back and delete any sentences of his which are purely
> non-technical. Apologies to Tom for being the "Scapegoat of the Week"
> (tm).

Well, you didn't just "delete" sentences, but modified the wording in a somewhat impertinent manner. That's not the job of a moderator - as for me, I preferred the original text.

---
MS-DOS forever!

tom

Germany (West),
22.11.2021, 22:00

@ Japheth

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> > I'm going to go back and delete any sentences of his which are purely
> > non-technical. Apologies to Tom for being the "Scapegoat of the Week"
> > (tm).
>
> Well, you didn't just "delete" sentences, but modified the wording in a
> somewhat impertinent manner. That's not the job of a moderator - as for me,
> I preferred the original text.

I don't care about "Scapegoat'ing" by Jack.

however 'moderating' other users' posts is not a good idea.
at least indicate that you did indeed 'moderate'.

Berlin, Germany,
23.11.2021, 21:15

@ tom

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> however 'moderating' other users' posts is not a good idea.

I would say: It CLEARLY depends. ;-) :-D

At least, editing requires distinct empathy and sure instinct.

> at least indicate that you did indeed 'moderate'.

Khusraw's post has a remark "(edited by Rugxulo, 21.11.2021, 19:09)" and contains "[minor adjustments -- ed.]". I think, this should be enough.

---
Forum admin

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
24.11.2021, 04:16

@ rr

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> > however 'moderating' other users' posts is not a good idea.
>
> I would say: It CLEARLY depends. ;-) :-D
>
> At least, editing requires distinct empathy and sure instinct.
>
> > at least indicate that you did indeed 'moderate'.
>
> Khusraw's post has a remark "(edited by Rugxulo, 21.11.2021, 19:09)" and
> contains "[minor adjustments -- ed.]". I think, this should be enough.

<2 cents worth>

Several years ago I edited a vistor's post on my board.

The other visitors rightfully chastised me for doing so.

Since then.... ZERO editing on my board.

EVERYTHING remains as posted with NO changes whatsoever.

</2 cents worth>

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

mceric

Germany,
23.11.2021, 01:07

@ Rugxulo

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

Hi Rugxulo,

your act of editing Jack's messages clearly was not 100% technical in nature either, so if anybody, then not you should have "moderated" him, but at most somebody else.

What do we know? The original poster uses "FreeDOS 1.2 and 1.3 RC4" and it has issues with some games. He cannot post his config and autoexec here, due to spam filtering, so we are waiting that he posts it on PASTEBIN and gives us the link, or emails one of us or the freedos-user mailing list about this.

We also know that FreeDOS 1.2 is old and that 1.3rc4 came with a relatively old UIDE and a relatively hidden UHDD version:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/.../distributions/1.3/previews/1.3-rc4/report.html

In the "base" install, even only LBACACHE would be installed. So it is quite possible that no cache at all was in use. If a cache was in use, then I can recommend to manually update to newer versions, including:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.3/drivers/uhdd/2021_10_30.zip

I also suggest trying XMGR instead of HIMEM. And please avoid EMM386 style drivers until you get the rest working. EMM386, including JEMMEX, gives too much room for bad config choices. Better start with a simple config without it.

I remember that FreeDOS sometimes shows symptoms such as failing to find command.com as soon as you start using HMA, UMB or XMS. Those are usually not something a disk cache can solve by being more foolproof, because the lost disk access is only a consequence of memory driver problems which become visible as soon as you try to use XMS swap, try to put the kernel into HMA, try to store cached disk data in XMS, try to access the disk while using UMB in areas which are also used by some BIOS disk functionality which failed to announce needing the area, or find out the hard way that XMS contents get corrupted due to XMS driver problems with the specific hardware as soon as you start using any XMS - for example for caching, and so on.

Still it makes sense that Tom mentioned the POSSIBILITY of disk troubles, given the error messages about not found files. Even if maybe the user just failed to go to the game directory first, or accidentally had the files write protected.

Unsurprisingly, Jack complained about Tom's comment, assuming Tom would have specifically tried to blame the quality of Jack's disk drivers. The tone of that complaint was harder than needed. Yet Rugxulo, who is known to have a history of getting into fights with Jack, clearly still is the wrong person to censor Jack's thoughts and declare himself to be Jack's spokesperson. Maybe some OTHER moderator could undo Rugxulo's change and do a more sensible edit instead, if any? Thanks :-)

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FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...

Berlin, Germany,
23.11.2021, 21:07

@ mceric

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> Maybe some OTHER moderator could undo Rugxulo's change and do
> a more sensible edit instead, if any? Thanks :-)

That's no possible, because 'my little forum' doesn't keep a post's history. This is no wiki software.

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Forum admin

Berlin, Germany,
21.11.2021, 12:38

@ jhall

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> That's not to say that FreeDOS is perfect. For the life of me, I cannot get
> the Wolfenstein 3D installer (1wolf14.zip) to run on FreeDOS. Even with
> nothing loaded, INSTALL.EXE aborts with "Runtime error 200 at 0774:0091"

Are you sure?
"Runtime error 200" is usually thrown by Turbo/Borland Pascal programs, but INSTALL.EXE was compiled using Microsoft C 7.0.

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Forum admin

Berlin, Germany,
21.11.2021, 13:24

@ rr

FDOS works fine, but Old Games not!

Post reply

> > That's not to say that FreeDOS is perfect. For the life of me, I cannot
> get
> > the Wolfenstein 3D installer (1wolf14.zip) to run on FreeDOS. Even with
> > nothing loaded, INSTALL.EXE aborts with "Runtime error 200 at 0774:0091"
>
> Are you sure?
> "Runtime error 200" is usually thrown by Turbo/Borland Pascal programs, but
> INSTALL.EXE was compiled using Microsoft C 7.0.

Interestingly, the INSTALL.EXE from https://image.dosgamesarchive.com/games/1wolf14.zip was indeed compiled using Turbo Pascal 7.0, while ftp://ftp.3drealms.com/share/1wolf14.zip used MS C. Both downloads are dated 1993-01-01.

TP INSTALL.EXE has the string "INSTALL.EXE (ver 2.1) (c) 1994 SubZero Software".

SubZero Software is know for the game Alien_Carnage / Halloween Harry.

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Forum admin

Rugxulo Usono, 21.11.2021, 14:44 @ rr	FDOS works fine, but Old Games not! Post reply
	> "Runtime error 200" is usually thrown by Turbo/Borland Pascal programs In particular, it's usually due to Delay() (which is initialized by default in later versions). Just to state the obvious, these might help: * r200fix (TSR) * mark/release (for unloading stubborn TSRs)

Rugxulo

Usono,
20.11.2021, 19:34

@ liljames2k

Don't panic! (FreeDOS works!)

Post reply

Like Tom said, unload any unnecessary drivers (including EMM386 or software cache) or even mouse or keyboard drivers (unless forced). But RAM drive is probably okay.

Like Eric said, try using DOS32A.EXE instead of (often built-in) DOS4G (e.g. Doom, "DOS32A DOOM.EXE"), and see if that helps. (Yes, some games choke on too much RAM.)

It's probably best to focus on simple games first: PSR Invaders (8086 + VGA, no extra files), BioMenace (286, EGA), or Paku Paku (CGA text mode, runs on original IBM PC). All of those also support PC speaker.

It could be a BIOS or cpu microcode bug, but let's not get too paranoid.

Oh, you could try loading a TSR to see what files it's trying to find: KGB, then check the resulting C:\HISTORY.DAT file.

No one ever uses it, but I still think my MetaDOS (FreeDOS) floppy is a good, simple starting point for testing things out.

tom Germany (West), 20.11.2021, 19:46 @ Rugxulo	Don't panic! (FreeDOS works!) Post reply
	> Like Tom said, unload any unnecessary drivers (including EMM386 or software > cache) not software cache. disk cache (UHDD/UIDE/or whatever it's called these days)

mceric

Germany,
20.11.2021, 20:12

@ tom

Don't panic! (FreeDOS works!)

Post reply

> > Like Tom said, unload any unnecessary drivers (including EMM386 or
> software
> > cache)
>
> not software cache. disk cache (UHDD/UIDE/or whatever it's called these
> days)

assuming that this is a default freedos install, i guess it rather has too few than too many caches ;-) it might have LFN drivers loaded, or maybe the problem was that you first have to change to the directory before you start the game, as Jim suggested. but yes, loading no jemmex / jemm386 is a good start. try using himem or xmgr only. try different a20 control options if the default misbehaves. try a memory test if you have one, or if your himem variant has one built in. sometimes you can also use himem etc. options to limit the ways in which xms areas are detected, in case your bios is broken and reports misleading area descriptions when asked the default way. etc.

would be really nice to see the config and autoexec here! given that it contains some evil words blocked by the forum spam filter, you could post them on pastebin or similar websites and simply share the link here in the forum :-)

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FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...