DOS ain't dead

david

22.08.2019, 11:54

jemmex (Users)

Hi, I use jemmex but without UMB region

BREAK=ON
BUFFERS=80
FILES=200
HIFCBS=4,4
STACKS=0,0
DOS=HIGH,UMB
HILASTDRIVER=E
VERSION=7.10,6.22
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRDOS\JEMMEX.EXE X=TEST RAM
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRDOS\JLOAD.EXE C:\DRDOS\XCDROM32.DLL /D:DVD
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:512 /P

I try use memtest

conventional memory (Int 12h): 639 kB
XBDA at segment 9fc0, size 1 kB
Int 15h, ah=88h, extended memory: 0 kB
Int 15h, ax=E801h:
ext. memory below 16 MB: 15360 (0x3c00) KB
ext. memory above 16 MB: 48890 64 KB blocks = 3055 MB [1000000-bff9ffff]
Int 15h, eax=E820h:
address size type
--------------------------------------------
000000000 00009fc00 1 (available)
00009fc00 000000400 2 (reserved)
0000e0000 000020000 2 (reserved)
000100000 0bfea0000 1 (available)
0bffa0000 00000e000 3 (ACPI reclaimable)
0bffae000 000042000 4 (ACPI NVS)
0bfff0000 000010000 2 (reserved)
0fee00000 000001000 2 (reserved)
0fff00000 000100000 2 (reserved)
100000000 040000000 1 (available)

what I should use for region X=xxxx-yyyy set manualy?
thanks

david

Japheth

Germany (South),
23.08.2019, 09:04

@ david

jemmex

Post reply

> Hi, I use jemmex but without UMB region
...
> what I should use for region X=xxxx-yyyy set manualy?

I don't really understand what you want to achieve. If you want to know how jemmex sees the upper memory region (A000-FFFF), boot your PC WITHOUT jemmex and then load it from the commandline in "talkative" mode:

C:>jemmex load /v

---
MS-DOS forever!

david

24.08.2019, 10:46

@ Japheth

jemmex

Post reply

> C:>jemmex load /v

Int15, ax=E820: reserved region=e000, size=128 kB
'Fast' A20 method selected
EPROM at c000, size 56.0 kB
Using page frame d000
Needed: 48 kB for monitor, 8 kB for UMBs, 64 kB for DMA buffer
32 kB to account for DMA buffer 64 kB alignment
I15 total memory 3144256 kB
potential/max. VCPI memory: 3144104/122880 kB
28 kB needed for VCPI and EMS handling
XMS memory block for monitor: 110000-13d000, XMS highest=bffa0000
Memory Map: (R=system ram, G=graphics, E=rom/rsvd, P=page frame, U=umb)
00000: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
40000: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
80000: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
c0000: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEUU PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Physical start address of EMS pages: 134000
Total/available EMS pages: 2072/2048 (= 33152(32768) kB)
JemmEx loaded

how reach upper memory???

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 108,784 (106K) 108,784 (106K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 9,504 (9K) 9,504 (9K) 0 (0K)
DOSLFN 11,760 (11K) 11,760 (11K) 0 (0K)
CTMOUSE 3,552 (3K) 3,552 (3K) 0 (0K)
NDN 1,568 (2K) 1,568 (2K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 9,408 (9K) 9,408 (9K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 9,408 (9K) 9,408 (9K) 0 (0K)
Free 499,840 (488K) 499,840 (488K) 0 (0K)

Memory Type Total Used Free
---------------- -------- -------- --------
Conventional 639K 151K 488K
Upper 0K 0K 0K
Reserved 385K 385K 0K

Thank You David

Japheth

Germany (South),
24.08.2019, 12:45

@ david

jemmex

Post reply

> Memory Map: (R=system ram, G=graphics, E=rom/rsvd, P=page frame, U=umb)
> 00000: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
> 40000: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
> 80000: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
> c0000: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEUU PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

As you can see, jemmex provides one UMB at CE00-CFFF, size 8 kB.

Might be increased by:

1. add option NOEMS; this will add 64 kB
2. add option I=B000-B7FF; this will add 32 kB

> Conventional 639K 151K 488K
> Upper 0K 0K 0K
> Reserved 385K 385K 0K

> how reach upper memory???

Usually line DOS=HIGH,UMB will ensure that DOS is using the UMBs provided by jemmex. However, this requires that jemmex is loaded via DEVICE=jemmex.exe in config.sys.

---
MS-DOS forever!

david 24.08.2019, 14:11 @ Japheth	jemmex Post reply
	> > Usually line DOS=HIGH,UMB will ensure that DOS is using the UMBs provided > by jemmex. However, this requires that jemmex is loaded via > DEVICE=jemmex.exe in config.sys. like this DOS=HIGH,UMB DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRDOS\JEMMEX.EXE X=CE00-CFFF I=B000-B7FF NOEMS NOEMS increase limit memory under 1MB but mem /c still shows UPPER = 0 :( is it OK?

Japheth

Germany (South),
24.08.2019, 17:36

@ david

jemmex

Post reply

> mem /c still shows UPPER = 0 :(

I don't know the DRDOS "mem" program, so I can't help here.

type JEMMEX on the command line, it will show its current state; for me it displays:

emmEx v5.79 [09/09/18] JemmEx v5.79 installed. EMS is Off. VCPI is On, 96 of max. 30816 pages allocated. DMA buffer at 00120000, size 64 kB. A20 emulation is On. VME is Off. PGE is Off. UMB supplied at cf1f-e6ff, allocated.

the last line tells me that there is one UMB block, which has been allocated (hopefully by DOS)

If the last line reports UMBs that are "free", DOS won't use them.

---
MS-DOS forever!

david

27.08.2019, 13:10

@ Japheth

jemmex

Post reply

> emmEx v5.79 [09/09/18]
> JemmEx v5.79 installed.
> EMS is Off.
> VCPI is On, 96 of max. 30816 pages allocated.
> DMA buffer at 00120000, size 64 kB.
> A20 emulation is On.
> VME is Off.
> PGE is Off.
> UMB supplied at cf1f-e6ff, allocated.

DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRDOS\JEMMEX.EXE X=CE00-CFFF I=B000-B7FF NOEMS

this line in config.sys gets this output

JemmEx v5.79 [09/09/18]
JemmEx v5.79 installed.
EMS is Off.
VCPI is On, 105 of max. 30816 pages allocated.
DMA buffer at 00120000, size 64 kB.
A20 emulation is On.
VME is Off.
PGE is Off.
UMB supplied at b01f-b29e, allocated.
UMB supplied at d000-da7f, allocated.
UMB supplied at da80-db7f, allocated.
UMB supplied at b29f-b7ff, free.
UMB supplied at db80-dfff, free.

so is there UMB?

Japheth

Germany (South),
31.08.2019, 10:04

@ david

jemmex

Post reply

> UMB supplied at b01f-b29e, allocated.
> UMB supplied at d000-da7f, allocated.
> UMB supplied at da80-db7f, allocated.
> UMB supplied at b29f-b7ff, free.
> UMB supplied at db80-dfff, free.
>
> so is there UMB?

Well, yes, isn't it obvious?

However, the DOS you're using behaves a bit different compared to MS-DOS/FreeDOS. While those DOSes allocate all UMBs as soon as they have been made available. your DOS (DRDOS?) seems to allocate UMBs only when actually meeded.

---
MS-DOS forever!

david 03.09.2019, 09:40 @ Japheth	jemmex Post reply
	> > However, the DOS you're using behaves a bit different compared to > MS-DOS/FreeDOS. While those DOSes allocate all UMBs as soon as they have > been made available. your DOS (DRDOS?) seems to allocate UMBs only when > actually meeded. EDR-DOS by Udo Kuhnt has differencies in use on i386 or x86-64bit arch! I see UMB with installed applications on i386 :) when use mem /c

david

26.09.2019, 10:08

@ david

jemmex

Post reply

FreeDOS kernel on same HW and partition >

mem /c

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 64,864 (63K) 64,832 (63K) 32 (0K)
COMMAND 3,552 (3K) 3,024 (3K) 528 (1K)
SHSUCDX 6,224 (6K) 6,224 (6K) 0 (0K)
DOSLFN 12,464 (12K) 12,464 (12K) 0 (0K)
NDN 1,600 (2K) 1,600 (2K) 0 (0K)
RTSPKT 26,160 (26K) 26,160 (26K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 3,744 (4K) 3,024 (3K) 720 (1K)
COMMAND 3,744 (4K) 3,024 (3K) 720 (1K)
JLOAD 64 (0K) 0 (0K) 64 (0K)
CTMOUSE 3,552 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,552 (3K)
Free 560,096 (547K) 533,424 (521K) 26,672 (26K)

Memory Type Total Used Free
---------------- -------- -------- --------
Conventional 639K 118K 521K
Upper 32K 6K 26K
Reserved 353K 353K 0K
Extended (XMS) 3,144,320K 2,100K 3,142,220K
---------------- -------- -------- --------
Total memory 3,145,344K 2,577K 3,142,767K

Total under 1 MB 671K 124K 547K

Total Expanded (EMS) 32M (33,947,648 bytes)
Free Expanded (EMS) 32M (33,554,432 bytes)

Largest executable program size 521K (533,296 bytes)
Largest free upper memory block 26K ( 26,672 bytes)
FreeDOS is resident in the high memory area.

It is strange, that I cannot load high,umb doslfn, shsucdx by loadhigh command
in autoexec.bat :(

Rugxulo

Usono,
30.08.2019, 02:49

@ david

jemmex

Post reply

> Modules using memory below 1 MB:
>
> Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
> -------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
> SYSTEM 108,784 (106K) 108,784 (106K) 0 (0K)
> COMMAND 9,504 (9K) 9,504 (9K) 0 (0K)
> DOSLFN 11,760 (11K) 11,760 (11K) 0 (0K)
> CTMOUSE 3,552 (3K) 3,552 (3K) 0 (0K)
> NDN 1,568 (2K) 1,568 (2K) 0 (0K)
> COMMAND 9,408 (9K) 9,408 (9K) 0 (0K)
> COMMAND 9,408 (9K) 9,408 (9K) 0 (0K)
> Free 499,840 (488K) 499,840 (488K) 0 (0K)

Is it mandatory that you shell out from NDN (for whatever specific task you're trying to accomplish)?

BTW, some apps don't need mouse or LFNs, so you can unload those TSRs manually/temporarily, if you need the RAM (as long as you have them loaded last, after all other unloadable drivers).

Are you using DR-DOS? This is why I preferred third-party drivers for RAM disk (TDSK) and cmdline history (TODDY) on my old Pentium. Those could resize/unload, unlike default ones.

Of course, it's also wise to just make a (D)CONFIG.SYS menu to choose at bootup which things to load. (And you can adjust FILES= and LASTDRIVE= accordingly, etc., to not waste what you don't need.)

boeckmann

Aachen, Germany,
15.12.2023, 00:32

@ david

jemmex

Post reply

> Hi, I use jemmex but without UMB region
>
> BREAK=ON
> BUFFERS=80
> FILES=200
> HIFCBS=4,4
> STACKS=0,0
> DOS=HIGH,UMB
> HILASTDRIVER=E
> VERSION=7.10,6.22
> DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRDOS\JEMMEX.EXE X=TEST RAM
> DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRDOS\JLOAD.EXE C:\DRDOS\XCDROM32.DLL /D:DVD
> SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:512 /P
>
> I try use memtest
>
>
> conventional memory (Int 12h): 639 kB
> XBDA at segment 9fc0, size 1 kB
> Int 15h, ah=88h, extended memory: 0 kB
> Int 15h, ax=E801h:
> ext. memory below 16 MB: 15360 (0x3c00) KB
> ext. memory above 16 MB: 48890 64 KB blocks = 3055 MB [1000000-bff9ffff]
> Int 15h, eax=E820h:
> address size type
> --------------------------------------------
> 000000000 00009fc00 1 (available)
> 00009fc00 000000400 2 (reserved)
> 0000e0000 000020000 2 (reserved)
> 000100000 0bfea0000 1 (available)
> 0bffa0000 00000e000 3 (ACPI reclaimable)
> 0bffae000 000042000 4 (ACPI NVS)
> 0bfff0000 000010000 2 (reserved)
> 0fee00000 000001000 2 (reserved)
> 0fff00000 000100000 2 (reserved)
> 100000000 040000000 1 (available)
>
> what I should use for region X=xxxx-yyyy set manualy?
> thanks
>
> david

I know this is a little bit late. But I ran into the same trap, so I want to share the solution. You have to place the DEVICE=JEMMEX.EXE... line above the DOS=HIGH,UMB line, due to the way config.sys is processed by DRBIO.SYS.

Greetings, Bernd