DOS ain't dead

FFK 31.10.2007, 09:26	Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ? (Developers) Post reply
	I'm just curious if DOS (FreeDOS, DrDos ...) is able to run under an UMPC. Does an UMPC contain a standard BIOS (Int 0x10 : TextMode, VESA, Int 0x13 ...) ?

lucho 31.10.2007, 10:01 @ FFK	Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ? Post reply
	> I'm just curious if DOS (FreeDOS, DrDos ...) is able to run under an UMPC. Was ist das? Hergesteller, URL, bitte... (What is that? Manufacturer, URL, please...)

FFK 31.10.2007, 10:38 @ lucho	Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ? Post reply
	> Was ist das? Hergesteller, URL, bitte... > (What is that? Manufacturer, URL, please...) UMPC is an X86 handheld. with LCD screen, keyboard, hard-disk ... There is a lot a manufacturer including SONY, ASUS, SAMSUNG, GIGABYTE ... you can visit http://umpc.com

Steve US, 31.10.2007, 23:26 @ FFK	Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ? Post reply
	> I'm just curious if DOS (FreeDOS, DrDos ...) is able to run under an UMPC. > Does an UMPC contain a standard BIOS (Int 0x10 : TextMode, VESA, Int 0x13 > ...) ? Why would it?

lucho 01.11.2007, 08:02 @ Steve	Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ? Post reply
	> > I'm just curious if DOS (FreeDOS, DrDos ...) is able to run under an UMPC. > > Does an UMPC contain a standard BIOS (Int 0x10 : TextMode, VESA, Int 0x13 ...) ? > > Why would it? Why not? The following thread (read the last couple of messsages) suggests that DOS could be run there: http://umpc.com/forums/thread/732.aspx

Steve

US,
01.11.2007, 23:59

@ lucho

Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ?

Post reply

> Why not? The following thread (read the last couple of messsages) suggests
> that DOS could be run there:
> http://umpc.com/forums/thread/732.aspx

The Intel guy says "the platform uses a standard legacy system BIOS which is basically the same as used on any other PC". Maybe on Intel's reference system (because it's easy and cheap), but that says nothing about what other manufacturers will do. Why generic VESA rather than a custom driver for a machine's own controller? Etc.

Intel's UMPC page:
http://www.intel.com/products/mid/ultramobile2007.htm

I certainly will not object if DOS can be loaded on a UMPC, but it can't be assumed that any manufacturer will make it wasy. Even devices as relatively primitive as WinCE handhelds can't run DOS directly - but emulation is possible, and I would guess that that will be the only way to run DOS on a UMPC.

lucho 02.11.2007, 10:42 @ Steve	Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ? Post reply
	Not sure until tested. In general, if it has a BIOS, it will run DOS; if it has an EFI firmware without BIOS emulation, it won't.

RayeR

CZ,
05.11.2007, 11:29

@ lucho

Ultra Mobile PC and DOS ?

Post reply

> Not sure until tested. In general, if it has a BIOS, it will run DOS; if it
> has an EFI firmware without BIOS emulation, it won't.

In some spec I saw it has standard Phoenix PnP APM/ACPI BIOS. Don't fear us with EFI which will brings the end of DOS era (running on real hw) :-|

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

lucho

05.11.2007, 13:17

@ RayeR

EFI and DOS, DOS on Apple Macintosh

Post reply

> In some spec I saw it has standard Phoenix PnP APM/ACPI BIOS.

That's good! So it should run real mode DOS.

> Don't scare us with EFI which will brings the end of dos era (running on real hw) :-|

It depends on who and how wrote it. For example, Apple added BIOS emulation to the Macintosh EFI, so it does run real mode DOS - see http://www.freedos.org/news/imac/. (Another question is that they didn't do this because of DOS but because of WinXP, however this helps DOS too.)

RayeR

CZ,
06.11.2007, 01:25

@ lucho

EFI and DOS, DOS on Apple Macintosh

Post reply

> It depends on who and how wrote it. For example, Apple added BIOS
> emulation to the Macintosh EFI, so it does run real mode DOS - see
> http://www.freedos.org/news/imac/. (Another question is that
> they didn't do this because of DOS but because of WinXP, however this
> helps DOS too.)

I think nVidia's VESA VBE is nice example (or soundblaster, etc.). When a (even long time used) standard become less important and obsolete, HW vendors will spent much less time and effort on it and cut more and more functions until it disappear. I hope the EFI emulation will support DOS for some time but it will not be forever...

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Khusraw

06.11.2007, 11:51
(edited by Khusraw, 06.11.2007, 23:19)

@ RayeR

EFI and DOS, DOS on Apple Macintosh

Post reply

> I think nVidia's VESA VBE is nice example (or soundblaster, etc.). When a
> (even long time used) standard become less important and obsolete, HW
> vendors will spent much less time and effort on it and cut more and more
> functions until it disappear. I hope the EFI emulation will support DOS
> for some time but it will not be forever...

As long as the most part of the potential customers will be disposed to pay more for the product just to have the "obsolete" features available, they will be supported. But IMHO, this is not the case.

RayeR

CZ,
06.11.2007, 17:29

@ Khusraw

EFI and DOS, DOS on Apple Macintosh

Post reply

> As long as the greatest part of the potential customers will be disposed
> to pay more for the product just to have the "obsolete" features
> available, they will be supported. But IMHO, this is not the case.

If there would be same e.g. VGA one without correct VESA 3.0 and one with full VESA 3.0 I will like to pay some extra money for this feature (if it wouldn't be 2x more) but such people is not much so manufacturers don't have motivation.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

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