DOS ain't dead - Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot)

totalizator

22.05.2014, 23:36

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help (Users)

Hi there,

Having a working PXE server with a couple of diskless Linux systems I decided to deploy a diskless DOS for easier tinkering among all the retro machines I have. The problem is that I don't know how to make it behave like an ordinary installation - with rw partition.

Most of the tutorials over the Internet suggest using MEMDISK that will allow you boot a disk image, mainly for BIOS upgrades.

Can you point me in the direction how to build such a setup?

--
t.

totalizator

30.05.2014, 19:43

@ totalizator

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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OK. Got it working. Problem solved. Apparently the only way to have diskless DOS with writable drive is PXE booting a prebuilt DOS image and then mounting a network share via SMB or NFS. I have tested both solutions and both are quite satisfying and yet have similar flaws.

For NFS booting I took one of rugxulo floppy images (https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/) and added packet driver for a client NIC and DOS NFS client. To my surprise, back in the days there were quite a few such applications like:

- Tsoft's NFS Client http://www.rawbandwidth.com/software/ (you can download it from the company website, it's a time trial and believe me or not - you can still buy license for it) .

-InterDrive included in PC/TCP from "FTP Software, Inc." (another commercial application, 10 disks install PCTCP41.ZIP)

-XFS by Robert Juhasz (it is easy to find and download, well documented and it was distributed as shareware)

For the reasons mentioned above I picked XFS. Latest version seems to be xfs191.zip (there was also 8088 version named xt-191.zip but it's nowhere to be found). It requires a packet driver to work and let's you mount NFS shares as local drives. No additional configuration for system files is needed (except LASTDRIVE=Z). The only struggle was that one of the binaries XFSTOOL.EXE suffered from Borland Pascal "Runtime Error 200" (division by zero if your PC is faster than Pentium Pro 180MHz). What you need then is TPPATCH.EXE to patch the binary (http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/pas-r200.htm#tppatch).

Using XFS is easy as all the configuration can be saved in an init scripts and invoking xfs.bat results in NFS share being mounted for example as a local C:\ drive. Using this method I ended up booting DOS floppy image via PXE, mounting NFS share and running XFDOS (https://code.google.com/p/nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos/wiki/XFDOS) graphical desktop SLWM entirely from LAN.

The second approach I have tried was creating boot floppy with MSCLIENT (Microsoft Network Client ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/Clients/MSCLIENT/) to access and mount Samba shares as local drives. It's even easier and like above it all fits on a single 1,44MB floppy. You need to strip the installed MSCLIENT from few unnecessary files - look here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.protocols.smb/da0b9WpgJaM or here http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles-tutorials/windows-nt/dosclflp.html (look at the end - no need for compression!).

The flaws I have mentioned earlier are a long file names. Both XFS and MSCLIENT goes wild when file name is longer than original DOS 8.3 format. Listing directory including long file names:

- MSCLIENT maps long files and directories as random (?) names (fortunately it preserves files extensions and lowercase names).

-XFS makes even proper DOS names (and short but lowercase) messed by adding a tilde plus two random characters ...and replacing extension to something random like THISI~FG.~HJ too, making the files unusable. Solution to this is adding "map=upper" to XFSTOOL.EXE mount command so the files that are lowercase are not mapped at all but the valid DOS names are showing up OK.

I don't know which side (server/client) is responsible for this and if it's an original behavior of the applications like back in the days). Assuming that I want a diskless DOS for using DOS applications I don't need long file names so the issues above are not a big deal for me.

Summing this up - it took me a while to google and figure it all out so maybe someone like me, who wants to waste a bit of his life for similar project gonna save some time after reading this.

--
t.

mcluskyism

italy,
16.06.2021, 22:17

@ totalizator

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> - Tsoft's NFS Client http://www.rawbandwidth.com/software/ (you can
> download it from the company website, it's a time trial and believe me or
> not - you can still buy license for it) .

Hello, Forum users.
For a strictly home / hobby project, I'm developing for myself a DOS boot floppy with network support.
It would be nice have also NFS, so I tried Tsoft Client, Version 1.02 WatTCP and I'm happy with it.
Unfortunately, it seems abandonware, and the developers at rawbandwidth.com did not respond to my email for license acquiring.
I'm not inclined in cracking softwares, but I need to circumvent the shareware time limitation, so: can anyone share to me a working TSNFS.REG key?
Or an already registered NFSINIT.OVL?
Thanks in advance

Berlin, Germany,
16.06.2021, 22:36

@ mcluskyism

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> I'm not inclined in cracking softwares, but I need to circumvent the
> shareware time limitation, so: can anyone share to me a working TSNFS.REG
> key?
> Or an already registered NFSINIT.OVL?

Don't ask for anything like that!

---
Forum admin

mcluskyism italy, 16.06.2021, 23:08 @ rr	Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help Post reply
	> Don't ask for anything like that! OK, so I'm stuck. I can't buy a licence. And I can't get it fully working. Amen!

Berlin, Germany,
17.06.2021, 20:25

@ mcluskyism

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> > Don't ask for anything like that!
> OK, so I'm stuck.
> I can't buy a licence.
> And I can't get it fully working.
> Amen!

I have good news for you!

Today I wrote to nfs@tsoft.net.
Only 30 minutes later I got this answer from Mike Durkin:
> Are you still selling licenses?

Yes, pricing is the same as the order.frm in nfs102-?.zip despite
the expiration date, just mailing address and other contact info
has changed. If you'd like to purchase a license, let me know
what your need is and I'll confirm cost and instructions to
place an order.

thanks, Mike

---
Forum admin

Berlin, Germany,
17.06.2021, 21:56

@ mcluskyism

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> For a strictly home / hobby project, I'm developing for myself a DOS boot
> floppy with network support.
> It would be nice have also NFS, so I tried Tsoft Client, Version 1.02
> WatTCP and I'm happy with it.
> Unfortunately, it seems abandonware, and the developers at rawbandwidth.com
> did not respond to my email for license acquiring.
> I'm not inclined in cracking softwares, but I need to circumvent the
> shareware time limitation, so: can anyone share to me a working TSNFS.REG
> key?
> Or an already registered NFSINIT.OVL?

I got my key from Mike now. :-)
So, please support one of the rare DOS networking developers by buying your own license!

---
Forum admin

mcluskyism

italy,
18.06.2021, 12:53

@ rr

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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Hello Robert,
Thank you, as yesterday a man named Mr. Mike Durkin replied to my messages to the email address I supposed still manned, and for now I have received a legitimate 45 days shareware key.
I also asked to buy a full license.

> So, please support one of the rare DOS networking developers by buying your own license!

I totally agree with you, but:
--- start of rant ---
* we are talking about a software whose last published version is #1.02 released March 25, 1995;
* as per ftp://ftp.blueneptune.com/pub/tsoft/nfs/ - file bugs.lst dated 02/16/1995 - latest bugs was fixed in (I think beta) release 0.259;
* me too wrote two times to the same address nfs@tsoft.net in the past days, but got a reply from Mr. Durkin from another address, and only after I have posted here in your Forum;
* as per link removed by 'rr' (if you dare to be scammed) the software we are talking about was cracked Jan 1999;

So, are you pretty sure we are talking about a currently mantained piece of software from a current developer :-| ???
--- end of rant ---

Berlin, Germany,
18.06.2021, 17:47

@ mcluskyism

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> Thank you, as yesterday a man named Mr. Mike Durkin replied to my messages
> to the email address I supposed still manned, and for now I have received a
> legitimate 45 days shareware key.
> I also asked to buy a full license.

:yes:

> > So, please support one of the rare DOS networking developers by buying
> your own license!
>
> I totally agree with you, but:
> --- start of rant ---
> * we are talking about a software whose last published version is #1.02
> released March 25, 1995;

Okay.

> * as per
> ftp://ftp.blueneptune.com/pub/tsoft/nfs/
> - file bugs.lst dated 02/16/1995 - latest bugs was fixed in (I think
> beta) release 0.259;

Okay.

Does the software work you?
Did you find any bugs?
Did you report the bug to Mike?
Did he not respond?

Why do you think, a software has to have a recent release date?
If it is 20 years old and it works as it is, there's no need for changes.

> * me too wrote two times to the same address nfs@tsoft.net in the
> past days, but got a reply from Mr. Durkin from another address, and only
> after I have posted here in your Forum;

You have a problem with that you didn't get a reply "in the past days"?
How urgent was your need after NFS for you hobby?

> * as per link removed by 'rr' (if you dare
> to be scammed) the software we are talking about was cracked Jan
> 1999;

Don't post links to anything not legal!

> So, are you pretty sure we are talking about a currently mantained
> piece of software from a current developer :-| ???

You are free to chose (or even write) another software, if you don't agree with what Mike does.

> --- end of rant ---

---
Forum admin

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
24.06.2014, 02:08

@ totalizator

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> Hi there,
>
> Having a working PXE server with a couple of diskless Linux systems I
> decided to deploy a diskless DOS for easier tinkering among all the retro
> machines I have. The problem is that I don't know how to make it behave
> like an ordinary installation - with rw partition.
>
> Most of the tutorials over the Internet suggest using MEMDISK that will
> allow you boot a disk image, mainly for BIOS upgrades.
>
> Can you point me in the direction how to build such a setup?
>
> --
> t.

Query....

Why on earth would you want a diskless Disk Operating System ??? ;-)

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

Oso2k 25.06.2014, 00:47 @ glennmcc	Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help Post reply
	> Why on earth would you want a diskless Disk Operating System ??? For the same reason a ROM DOS is nice. :D

RayeR

CZ,
25.06.2014, 01:54

@ glennmcc

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> Why on earth would you want a diskless Disk Operating System ??? ;-)

It's idiot proof, back in days on Czech tech. university, that I studied, there was tens of diskless computers connected to Internet for students in 2 computer classrooms.
There was a choice to boot Win98 or Linux via PXE. After login you can access your personal network drive (huh, just only ~20MB) and after logout the computer rebooted in clean state. Also few computers had Iomega 100 ZIP drive where I could download bigger files.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
25.06.2014, 04:36

@ RayeR

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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> > Why on earth would you want a diskless Disk Operating System ??? ;-)
>
> It's idiot proof, back in days on Czech tech. university, that I studied,
> there was tens of diskless computers connected to Internet for students in
> 2 computer classrooms.
> There was a choice to boot Win98 or Linux via PXE. After login you can
> access your personal network drive (huh, just only ~20MB) and after logout
> the computer rebooted in clean state. Also few computers had Iomega 100 ZIP
> drive where I could download bigger files.

Sorry... I should have been more plain... that post was made in jest
and it was purely a rhetorical question. ;-)

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

totalizator 25.06.2014, 14:56 @ glennmcc	Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help Post reply
	>[...] > Sorry... I should have been more plain... that post was made in jest > and it was purely a rhetorical question. Rhetorical yet provocative. -- t.

dggionco Buenos Aires - Argentina, 22.06.2021, 18:17 (edited by dggionco, 22.06.2021, 20:15) @ totalizator	Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help Post reply
	A website that has a series of bootable floppy/harddisk images, that may be useful for your project : http://bootcd.narod.ru/images_e.htm

mcluskyism

italy,
07.07.2021, 11:03

@ dggionco

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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Hello everyone, sorry for the silence but now I'm on vacation and in the meantime I have finished my tests.
Preamble: Inspired by this post, and especially by https://legroom.net/howto/msdos#network (IMHO one of the best tutorials ever), I started with this approach: basically, on server side a native Windows Samba 1.0, on my floppy the Microsoft Network Client with real mode NDIS driver, above NDIS I would have liked to use a shim Packet Driver to have both SMB and NFS in a single box.
Sounds gorgeous, right? :-D

So, first attempt was with XFS by Robert Juhasz ... epic fail, regardless of my every attempt to glue it all together, on server I can see haneWIN meekly accommodate the exported folder, but when I try to use that drive letter in DOS, that drive letter is always non-existent, I can't explain myself why.
In the end, I get only the SMB drive letter mounted as expected, but no NFS. :confused:

Then, second attempt, this time with Tsoft's NFS Client, as Mr. Mike Durkin was kind enough to send me a time limited evaluation license.
I must admit, this is the only fully working solution, I get a drive letter for NFS, I get a drive letter for SMB too, unfortunately this approach left me with too little conventional DOS memory to spare, well below 300 kB, so it's impossible to launch Partition-Saving (http://www.partition-saving.com/).
But if you want both SMB and NFS, this is the way to go. :ok:

Third, and last, the monster of all abandonware, PC/TCP 4.1 suite and InterDrive.
Although the informations to write a decent PCTCP.INI are almost impossible to find (https://web.archive.org/web/19980119115739/http://www.ftp.com/techsup/quick-help/docs/param.html), IMHO this is the best DOS NFS client so far: it uses a faster TCP instead of UDP for NFS connections, if you instruct your EMM driver with a true FRAME= and if you use real EMS memory and loadhigh= (via PCTCP.INI) both the kernel and the client, you can get a lot of DOS conventional memory to launch any other program.
As an unpleasant side note, it totally kills SMB (ouch!) ... without PC/TCP the command NET USE <yourlastdrive>: \\<nameyourserver>\<yoursharedfolder> works as expected, with PC/TCP the same command finds nothing and mounts nothing, I tried all the possible combination I think, with or without DHCP, with or without DNS, with or without HOSTS and LMHOSTS ... nothing! :no:

So, in the end, I use a real Packet Driver for my eth card, with just PC/TCP and I totally dropped the Microsoft Network Client and the NDIS part.

Stay safe, have your fun, and thanks to dggionco for the link.

mcluskyism

italy,
19.07.2021, 23:54

@ mcluskyism

Diskless DOS via PXE (netboot) - need help

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Hello, sorry for doubled post, but I can't edit my previous entry.
Anyway, I was partially wrong with InterDrive:
~~if you instruct your EMM driver with a true FRAME= and if you use real EMS memory~~ don't do that, on my system the Microsoft Network Client's TINYRFC doesn't likes EMS and just hangs forever, then if you only loadhigh= (via PCTCP.INI) both kernel and client, the conventional memory usage is comparable to the Tsoft's NFS Client.
~~As an unpleasant side note, it totally kills SMB~~ it's not true, as long as you must load first all the Microsoft Network Client's components, and only then the PC/TCP's ones.
In the really end ... both InterDrive and Tsoft's NFS Client do well their job, so choose your flavour :hungry: