DOS ain't dead - IBIBLIO is dead

DOS386

10.05.2015, 10:32

IBIBLIO is dead (Miscellaneous)

http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=cutemouse (OK)

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/mouse (Dead)

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub (Dead)

http://www.ibiblio.org/ (Shows page but useless)

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

Rugxulo

Usono,
10.05.2015, 19:29

@ DOS386

IBIBLIO is dead

Post reply

> http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=cutemouse (OK)
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/mouse (Dead)
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub (Dead)
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ (Shows page but useless)

Try this:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/mouse/ctm21b4.zip

At least (for now) that direct link still works (from Firefox).

But yes, this is already a known problem to both me and Jim Hall. However, I am not in the loop on iBiblio's changes nor even whom to contact, so I have no idea whether this is intentional, temporary, or whatever. We'll probably just have to wait and see.

mvojvodic

11.05.2015, 10:25
(edited by mvojvodic, 11.05.2015, 10:40)

@ DOS386

IBIBLIO is dead

Post reply

> http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=cutemouse (OK)
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/mouse (Dead)
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub (Dead)
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ (Shows page but useless)

It is not dead. All FreeDOS files and many others are still there.
I tried many direct links and they still work, but when I want to
browse some directory and try to enter it, the answer is always the same
403 Forbidden.

Several minutes ago I tried
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/ellis/
with the same answer, but I had no problem downloading
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/ellis/drivers-2015-03-05.zip
I found this link in March (browsing ellis directory was permitted).

At 10:24 CET I contacted my friend at ibiblio. He said that there was
no notice, but they did the site reconstruction and that it is almost
finished.

I checked ibiblio again. Now all links work and public directories
browsing works again.

Rugxulo

Usono,
12.05.2015, 02:05

@ mvojvodic

IBIBLIO is dead

Post reply

> I checked ibiblio again. Now all links work and public directories
> browsing works again.

But this does NOT fix the issue with mTCP's FTP (only on iBiblio). It used to work until about a week ago. Not it seems to fail with some kind of socket error. I'm horribly inept regarding networking, so I don't understand it at all. All I know is that even (DJGPP) Wget also fails (only) on ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org but http://ftp.ibiblio.org works fine!!

mvojvodic

12.05.2015, 20:27

@ Rugxulo

IBIBLIO is dead

Post reply

> > I checked ibiblio again. Now all links work and public directories
> > browsing works again.
>
> But this does NOT fix the issue with mTCP's FTP (only on iBiblio). It used
> to work until about a week ago. Not it seems to fail with some kind of
> socket error. I'm horribly inept regarding networking, so I don't
> understand it at all. All I know is that even (DJGPP) Wget also fails
> (only) on ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org but http://ftp.ibiblio.org works fine!!

You are right. HTTP works, but something is wrong with FTP.
I used FileZilla (usual port 21 and passive connection) and
these are its connection status messages:

Resolving address of ftp.ibiblio.org
Status: Connecting to 152.19.134.40:21...
Status: Connection established, waiting for welcome message...
Status: Insecure server, it does not support FTP over TLS.
Status: Connected
Status: Retrieving directory listing...
Status: Server sent passive reply with unroutable address. Using server address instead.
Status: Directory listing of "/" successful

Oso2k

13.05.2015, 17:57

@ mvojvodic

IBIBLIO is dead

Post reply

> > > I checked ibiblio again. Now all links work and public directories
> > > browsing works again.
> >
> > But this does NOT fix the issue with mTCP's FTP (only on iBiblio). It
> used
> > to work until about a week ago. Not it seems to fail with some kind of
> > socket error. I'm horribly inept regarding networking, so I don't
> > understand it at all. All I know is that even (DJGPP) Wget also fails
> > (only) on ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org but http://ftp.ibiblio.org works fine!!
>
> You are right. HTTP works, but something is wrong with FTP.
> I used FileZilla (usual port 21 and passive connection) and
> these are its connection status messages:
>
> Resolving address of ftp.ibiblio.org
> Status: Connecting to 152.19.134.40:21...
> Status: Connection established, waiting for welcome message...
> Status: Insecure server, it does not support FTP over TLS.
> Status: Connected
> Status: Retrieving directory listing...
> Status: Server sent passive reply with unroutable address. Using server
> address instead.
> Status: Directory listing of "/" successful

The issue is that iBiblio FTP went Extended Passive Mode, presumably in support of IPv6.

mbbrutman

Washington, USA,
16.05.2015, 22:45

@ Oso2k

IBIBLIO is dead

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> The issue is that iBiblio FTP went Extended Passive Mode, presumably in
> support of IPv6.

This is not quite right. Extended Passive or Extended Port mode is a command from the client, not the server.

In the case of IBiblio their server address resolves to one IPv4 address but the server is telling clients to connect to a different IPv4 address when a client requests a passive mode connection. While legal per the FTP RFC, this kind of server hand-off to a third party machine has probably never been implemented and is probably a firewall misconfiguration.

The lftp command line client and Chrome browser using FTP both work, presumably because they are ignoring the IPv4 address handed back as part of the PASV command. They are using the existing server address plus the new port. A modified copy of the mTCP FTP client works if I do the same trick.

I've reported the problem to iBiblio and they are working on it. They estimate it will be fixed early next week.

---
mTCP - TCP/IP apps for vintage DOS machines!
http://www.brutman.com/mTCP

Oso2k 17.05.2015, 02:25 @ mbbrutman	IBIBLIO is dead Post reply
	> but the server is telling clients to connect to a different IPv4 address > when a client requests a passive mode connection. While legal per the FTP > RFC, this kind of server hand-off to a third party machine has probably > never been implemented and is probably a firewall misconfiguration. Thanks for the clarification. By chance, does mTCP support Extended Passive Mode?

mbbrutman

Washington, USA,
17.05.2015, 03:16

@ Oso2k

IBIBLIO is dead

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> > but the server is telling clients to connect to a different IPv4 address
> > when a client requests a passive mode connection. While legal per the
> FTP
> > RFC, this kind of server hand-off to a third party machine has probably
> > never been implemented and is probably a firewall misconfiguration.
>
> Thanks for the clarification. By chance, does mTCP support Extended Passive
> Mode?

Not yet. It is really only needed for IPv6 support.

---
mTCP - TCP/IP apps for vintage DOS machines!
http://www.brutman.com/mTCP

bretjohn

Rio Rancho, NM,
20.05.2015, 18:35

@ mbbrutman

IBIBLIO is dead

Post reply

I just did an update to the FileZilla FTP client for Windows, and noticed this as one of their recent patches:

3.11.0-rc1 (2015-05-12)
...
+ In passive mode transfer, the source IP of the data connection is now bound to the same source IP as the control connection

Apparently, at least FileZilla has recently "upgraded" itself and is doing what you say they shouldn't do according to the spec. Indications are this may be the new de facto "standard", since maybe a lot of FTP servers are doing things wrong?

mbbrutman

Washington, USA,
21.05.2015, 06:51

@ bretjohn

IBIBLIO is dead

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That part of the FTP RFC was poorly conceived. It was imagined that you could have multiple machines participating in FTP transfers; a client, a "traffic manager" type machine, and a data server. It would be reasonable for the traffic manager machine to tell you to get your data from a third machine. In reality no FTP server ever implemented that and the same binary/program running on a single machine served both functions.

I'll probably update mTCP FTP to do the same thing, as it's not reasonable to expect that feature to ever be used. And with the proliferation of firewalls the configuration mistakes get more common.

---
mTCP - TCP/IP apps for vintage DOS machines!
http://www.brutman.com/mTCP

bretjohn

Rio Rancho, NM,
21.05.2015, 15:29

@ mbbrutman

IBIBLIO is dead

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I don't know enough about it, but it seems like it would be possible to try first with the "Data IP" (which is what the spec says you should do), and if that doesn't work try with the "Control IP". Or, maybe at least allow that as an option. It may slow things down at startup, but may be a more reasonable solution than just giving up and assuming that everybody always does it wrong.

It really doesn't make any sense that the IP would be wrong, unless the server configurations aren't even bothering to set it at all and what's being used is just some random number left in memory from a previous calculation or something.

FWIW, I understand the frustration. Almost nothing in USB is 100% compliant with the standards.

mbbrutman

Washington, USA,
22.05.2015, 06:49

@ bretjohn

IBIBLIO is dead

Post reply

The issue is that in 1987 FTP servers and clients never sat behind firewalls, so they were free to both receive incoming connections (the control connection) and make outgoing connections (PORT mode for data connections).

First, home firewalls screwed up PORT connections by blocking them - they look like random incoming connections from the outside world, which is generally not expected. PASSIVE mode was the response to this; if the client wanted a data connection it would be responsible for making it. The reasoning was that if the client was able to make the control connection, then it would be able to use PASSIVE mode to make the data connection the same way. (PASSIVE is from the view of the server; instead of the server dialing out to the client to send data, the client dials the server while the server passively stands by.)

Later firewalls started snooping on FTP control session packets and fixed PORT mode to make it work. They detect PORT mode connections and allow those through based on the contents of your control connection. Unless of course you use a non-standard FTP control connection port... then all bets are off.

The problem with ibiblio is that their server is behind a firewall. So while the firewall directly routes incoming connections, it doesn't know to fix the PASV command responses from the server to advertise the publicly available IP address, not the internal network IP address. I had this problem with the mTCP FTP server and I provide a simple "advertise this as your IP address" setting to get around it. The good folks at ibiblio either have to fix the firewall to rewrite those responses or do a configuration change to the FTP server to get it to advertise the correct address for PASV connections.

In reality nobody ever made use of third machines for data transfers. It can safely be assumed to be an error.

---
mTCP - TCP/IP apps for vintage DOS machines!
http://www.brutman.com/mTCP

Rugxulo Usono, 06.06.2015, 15:15 @ mbbrutman	IBIBLIO is dead Post reply
	> I've reported the problem to iBiblio and they are working on it. They > estimate it will be fixed early next week. Well, they still haven't fixed this! Screw it, I'll just use a mirror. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. ftp://ftp.lyx.org/pub/freedos/files/

mbbrutman

Washington, USA,
07.06.2015, 00:48

@ Rugxulo

IBIBLIO is dead

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Yes, I'm kind of irritated about this. I did the debug work. I told them exactly what was wrong. And weeks later, it is still not fixed.

The next version of the mTCP FTP client will behave like lftp and just ignore 3rd party servers.

---
mTCP - TCP/IP apps for vintage DOS machines!
http://www.brutman.com/mTCP

DOS386

15.05.2015, 11:58

@ DOS386

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

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---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
16.05.2015, 00:30

@ DOS386

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

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FTP access is still nonfunctioning :(

This is all we get....

230-
Welcome to ftp.ibiblio.org, the public ftp server of ibiblio.org. We
hope you find what you're looking for.
If you have any problems or questions, please see
http://www.ibiblio.org/help/
Thanks!

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

Rugxulo

Usono,
16.05.2015, 03:44

@ glennmcc

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

Post reply

> FTP access is still nonfunctioning :(

According to Mike Brutman:

>> It is an ibiblio problem. All of your FTP clients are good and are
>> doing what they are supposed to be doing.
>>
>> Their server address is 152.19.134.40. But their FTP server is telling
>> clients to make passive connections to 172.27.205.12. Which is
>> perfectly legal as per the FTP spec, but nobody uses that feature. So
>> good, classical old-school FTP clients are not working with that
>> server. (mTCP and the current Ubuntu Linux ftp command line client
>> don't work.)
>>
>> lftp works, which really confused me until I figured out that lftp was
>> ignoring the alternate server address and just using the current server
>> address with the port being specified by the server for the passive
>> connection. Tricky. Chrome is doing the same thing
>>
>> The problem has been reported and they expect to have it fixed
>> early next week.

mvojvodic

21.06.2015, 19:15

@ glennmcc

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

Post reply

> FTP access is still nonfunctioning :(
>
> This is all we get....
>
> 230-
> Welcome to ftp.ibiblio.org, the public ftp server of ibiblio.org. We
> hope you find what you're looking for.
> If you have any problems or questions, please see
> http://www.ibiblio.org/help/
> Thanks!

Using FileZilla 3.11.0.2
They fixed that IP problem.

This is what I get at ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org
(as Anonymous, password my mail address, port 21 passive connection):

Status: Resolving address of ftp.ibiblio.org
Status: Connecting to 152.19.134.40:21...
Status: Connection established, waiting for welcome message...
Status: Insecure server, it does not support FTP over TLS.
Status: Connected
Status: Retrieving directory listing...
Status: Server sent passive reply with unroutable address. Using server address instead.
Status: Directory listing of "/" successful
Status: Retrieving directory listing of "/pub"...
Status: Server sent passive reply with unroutable address. Using server address instead.
Status: Directory listing of "/pub" successful

Directories browsing and files download work OK.

Rugxulo Usono, 21.06.2015, 20:05 @ mvojvodic	IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least) Post reply
	> Using FileZilla 3.11.0.2 > They fixed that IP problem. > > This is what I get at ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org > (as Anonymous, password my mail address, port 21 passive connection): > > Directories browsing and files download work OK. Nope, still doesn't work for me (using mTCP under VBox).

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
22.06.2015, 03:16

@ Rugxulo

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

Post reply

> > Using FileZilla 3.11.0.2
> > They fixed that IP problem.
> >
> > This is what I get at ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org
> > (as Anonymous, password my mail address, port 21 passive connection):
> >
> > Directories browsing and files download work OK.
>
> Nope, still doesn't work for me (using mTCP under VBox).

Also does not work with DOS Arachne nor with Linux ftp.

root@glennmcc:~# ftp ftp.ibiblio.org
Connected to ftp.ibiblio.org (152.19.134.40).
220 ProFTPD Server
Name (ftp.ibiblio.org:root): anonymous
331 Anonymous login ok, send your complete email address as your password
Password:
230-
Welcome to ftp.ibiblio.org, the public ftp server of ibiblio.org. We
hope you find what you're looking for.

If you have any problems or questions, please see

http://www.ibiblio.org/help/

Thanks!

230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> ls
421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection
Passive mode refused.
ftp>

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

roytam

22.06.2015, 15:27

@ glennmcc

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

Post reply

> > > Using FileZilla 3.11.0.2
> > > They fixed that IP problem.
> > >
> > > This is what I get at ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org
> > > (as Anonymous, password my mail address, port 21 passive connection):
> > >
> > > Directories browsing and files download work OK.
> >
> > Nope, still doesn't work for me (using mTCP under VBox).
>
> Also does not work with DOS Arachne nor with Linux ftp.
>
> root@glennmcc:~# ftp ftp.ibiblio.org
> Connected to ftp.ibiblio.org (152.19.134.40).
> 220 ProFTPD Server
> Name (ftp.ibiblio.org:root): anonymous
> 331 Anonymous login ok, send your complete email address as your password
> Password:
> 230-
> Welcome to ftp.ibiblio.org, the public ftp server of ibiblio.org. We
> hope you find what you're looking for.
>
> If you have any problems or questions, please see
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/help/
>
> Thanks!
>
> 230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply
> Remote system type is UNIX.
> Using binary mode to transfer files.
> ftp> ls
> 421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection
> Passive mode refused.
> ftp>

In Linux:
$ ftp ftp.ibiblio.org Connected to ftp.ibiblio.org (152.19.134.40). 220 ProFTPD Server Name (ftp.ibiblio.org:root): ftp 331 Anonymous login ok, send your complete email address as your password Password: 230- Welcome to ftp.ibiblio.org, the public ftp server of ibiblio.org. We hope you find what you're looking for. If you have any problems or questions, please see http://www.ibiblio.org/help/ Thanks! 230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply Remote system type is UNIX. Using binary mode to transfer files. ftp> ls 227 Entering Passive Mode (172,27,205,13,246,76). ftp: connect: Connection timed out ftp> passive Passive mode off. ftp> dir 500 Illegal PORT command ftp> quit 221 Goodbye.

OK I gave up. :-(

glennmcc

North Jackson, Ohio (USA),
22.06.2015, 17:11

@ roytam

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

Post reply

IMO, ProFTPD is the problem. They should scrap that piece of junk
and use Pure-FTPd instead which is easy to setup and works much, much better.

root@glennmcc:~# ftp glennmcc.org
Connected to glennmcc.org (72.167.131.105).
220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ----------
220-You are user number 2 of 500 allowed.
220-Local time is now 08:06. Server port: 21.
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login
220 You will be disconnected after 3 minutes of inactivity.
Name (glennmcc.org:root): glennmcc
331 User glennmcc OK. Password required
Password:
230 OK. Current directory is /
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> ls
227 Entering Passive Mode (72,167,131,105,197,73)
150 Accepted data connection
drwxrwxrwx 14 835 inetuser 8192 May 16 21:27 .
drwxrwxrwx 14 835 inetuser 8192 May 16 21:27 ..

<snip>

226-Options: -a -l
226 26 matches total
ftp>

________________

> > > > Using FileZilla 3.11.0.2
> > > > They fixed that IP problem.
> > > >
> > > > This is what I get at ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org
> > > > (as Anonymous, password my mail address, port 21 passive
> connection):
> > > >
> > > > Directories browsing and files download work OK.
> > >
> > > Nope, still doesn't work for me (using mTCP under VBox).
> >
> > Also does not work with DOS Arachne nor with Linux ftp.
> >
> > root@glennmcc:~# ftp ftp.ibiblio.org
> > Connected to ftp.ibiblio.org (152.19.134.40).
> > 220 ProFTPD Server
> > Name (ftp.ibiblio.org:root): anonymous
> > 331 Anonymous login ok, send your complete email address as your
> password
> > Password:
> > 230-
> > Welcome to ftp.ibiblio.org, the public ftp server of ibiblio.org. We
> > hope you find what you're looking for.
> >
> > If you have any problems or questions, please see
> >
> > http://www.ibiblio.org/help/
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > 230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply
> > Remote system type is UNIX.
> > Using binary mode to transfer files.
> > ftp> ls
> > 421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection
> > Passive mode refused.
> > ftp>
>
> In Linux:
> $ ftp ftp.ibiblio.org> Connected to ftp.ibiblio.org (152.19.134.40). > 220 ProFTPD Server > Name (ftp.ibiblio.org:root): ftp > 331 Anonymous login ok, send your complete email address as your password > Password: > 230- > Welcome to ftp.ibiblio.org, the public ftp server of ibiblio.org. We > hope you find what you're looking for. > > If you have any problems or questions, please see > > http://www.ibiblio.org/help/ > > Thanks! > > 230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply > Remote system type is UNIX. > Using binary mode to transfer files. > ftp> ls > 227 Entering Passive Mode (172,27,205,13,246,76). > ftp: connect: Connection timed out > ftp> passive > Passive mode off. > ftp> dir > 500 Illegal PORT command > ftp> quit > 221 Goodbye. >
>
> OK I gave up. :-(

---
--
http://glennmcc.org/

mbbrutman

Washington, USA,
23.06.2015, 03:28

@ glennmcc

IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least)

Post reply

In my post above I explain exactly what is wrong with the FTP clients ... their server's firewall is misconfigured. Nothing has changed since then. I encourage you all to file bug reports with them; apparently mine was not enough.

---
mTCP - TCP/IP apps for vintage DOS machines!
http://www.brutman.com/mTCP

Rugxulo Usono, 06.07.2016, 22:20 @ Rugxulo	IBIBLIO worx again (HTTP at least) Post reply
	> Nope, still doesn't work for me (using mTCP [2013] under VBox). Well, it works now. I don't know why or for how long, but it does work (again).