DOS ain't dead - Multi Kernel bootdisk

nico7550

10.09.2018, 23:54

Multi Kernel bootdisk (Miscellaneous)

Hi,

I'm Nico and this is my first post, I would like to share one of my personal project, a multi kernel boot disk, with 15 kernels. Tested with 86BOX.

- LZ-DOS 7.1
- PC-DOS 7.1
- MS-DOS 8.0
- PTS-DOS 7.1
- ROM-DOS 7.1
- Novell DOS 7.01
- FREEDOS 1.2
- MS-DOS 7.1
- DR-DOS 8.1
- OPENDOS 7.01
- EDR-DOS 7.01
- MS-DOS 7.0
- WMAT-DOS 9.0
- DR-DOS 7.03
- MS-DOS 6.22

All credits goes to the people who made the tools, I deserve nothing, I just arrange things together.

I made it for the pleasure of putting the maximum of things on a single floppy disk and achieve maximum memory...

NFO file with full explanation:
https://btnext.org/nfo/NFO/101f4i018021e442.png

Archive with 2 bootdisks and a HDD image (all of them with related NFO files):
[edited by moderator]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright
http://copyrightblog.kluweriplaw.com/2017/01/10/li...ringement-cjeu-sanoma-interpreted-german-court/

Special credit to Japheth for JEMMEX, from my point of view, the best all around memory manager.

I'm looking for a RxDOS 7.2 bootdisk with some explanation about the settings to use of another interpreter.

Enjoy

Rugxulo

Usono,
11.09.2018, 00:18

@ nico7550

Multi Kernel bootdisk

Post reply

> I'm Nico and this is my first post,

Welcome!

> I would like to share one of my personal project,
> a multi kernel boot disk, with 15 kernels.

Manual instructions or patches are probably wiser than full download.

> Tested with 86BOX.

Never used it personally (yet?), but I've barely heard of it.

> - LZ-DOS 7.1

aka, Lempel-Ziv-compressed MS-DOS 7.x ("unofficial" modification)

> - PC-DOS 7.1

Is that the unofficial one with FAT32 support? From Server Scripting Toolkit or whatever?

> - MS-DOS 8.0

From Windows ME? "EBD" (emergency boot disk) in (e.g. Win7's) DISKCOPY.DLL?

> - PTS-DOS 7.1

Is that even sold online anymore? AFAIK, shareware. Is this the FAT32 version?

> - ROM-DOS 7.1

Still sold online (IIRC, $55 USD).

> - Novell DOS 7.01

aka, OpenDOS (non-commercial only)

> - FREEDOS 1.2

Kernel 2042? (GPL)

> - MS-DOS 7.1

aka, from Win98 (commercial)

> - DR-DOS 8.1

Not a true release, mostly same as 7.03 (last full release, AFAIK)

> - OPENDOS 7.01

Okay, isn't this the same as above (so-called Novell 7.01)?

> - EDR-DOS 7.01

Which one? There were several releases of EDR, last stable was from 2011, right?

> - MS-DOS 7.0

aka, Win95, is there much difference between 7.0 and 7.1? (AFAIK, no)

> - WMAT-DOS 9.0

Never heard of this one!

> - DR-DOS 7.03

Still sold online ($79 USD). Good DOS, I used it for several years (but has some hardcoded limits and somewhat old).

> - MS-DOS 6.22

Last standalone release from 1994. Classic but doesn't support FAT32 (but neither does DR-DOS 7.03).

> All credits goes to the people who made the tools, I deserve nothing, I
> just arrange things together.

Instructions and patches are okay, but I don't think linking to such software is okay (for most countries, e.g. forum's owner lives in .de and similarly USA is quite strict, not sure where you're located or what your local laws say)

> I made it for the pleasure of putting the maximum of things on a single
> floppy disk and achieve maximum memory...

Cool. Now make a FreeDOS only one that can be redistributed with impunity! :-D
(I still need to update my MetaDOS yet again one of these days.)

> NFO file with full explanation:
> https://btnext.org/nfo/NFO/101f4i018021e442.png

Quite long! I haven't read it yet (why PNG??), but it looks interesting.

> Archive with 2 bootdisks and a HDD image (all of them with related NFO
> files):
> [edited by moderator]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright
> http://copyrightblog.kluweriplaw.com/2017/01/10/li...ringement-cjeu-sanoma-interpreted-german-court/

Yeah, like I said, I don't think Robert really wants explicit ("unofficial") links to such things.

> Special credit to Japheth for JEMMEX, from my point of view, the best all
> around memory manager.

Have you seen the latest prerelease? There's at least one FreeDOS developer who still has an active interest in such things, but he doesn't frequent the forum here. Feel free to discuss it here (in another topic) or on freedos-devel or freedos-user or wherever.

> I'm looking for a RxDOS 7.2 bootdisk with some explanation about the
> settings to use of another interpreter.

cm is the resident RxDOS expert, but I don't know if even he considers his fork stable yet (if ever). Consensus mostly seems to be that it's always been too buggy for average use.

nico7550

11.09.2018, 08:47

@ Rugxulo

Multi Kernel bootdisk

Post reply

Hi Rugxulo,

thanks for your reply and your care.

Here are my answers:

< Manual instructions or patches are probably wiser than full download.
>With 15 kernels, the instructions will be far more longer than the actual NFO and nobody will follow them until the end, it take me some weeks to manage to have something working and I lost many days of personal life doing it.

PC-DOS 7.1, it's the latest one available from IBM repository (see NFO for link).

MS-DOS 8.0, From Windows ME, from a premade bootdisk

PTS-DOS 7.1, it's from the demo disk I found

FREEDOS 1.2, Kernel 2042, yes, latest kernel available

OPENDOS 7.01 the same as Novell 7.01 ?
Mostly but as the memory result are not the same, I assume there is some differences.

EDR-DOS 7.01, last stable ?
I pretty sure it is, I try to use the latest file (using file date if I cannot find more information)

MS-DOS 7.0, is there much difference between 7.0 and 7.1?
>As the memory result are not the same, I assume there is some differences.

> I don't think linking to such software is okay
> Sorry, people interest may still ask me a link for personal use.

>I still need to update my MetaDOS
<I'm interest with your metados, in any state it is, if it can boot and use 4DOS as interpreter :-)

NFO file, why PNG?, Because it allow people to read it online without downloading it

> Special credit to Japheth for JEMMEX, from my point of view, the best all
> around memory manager.
<Have you seen the latest prerelease? There's at least one FreeDOS developer who still has an active interest in such things, but he doesn't frequent the forum here. Feel free to discuss it here (in another topic) or on freedos-devel or freedos-user or wherever.
>The latest is include in the 8.4 release, I hope he will not be upset of it, but from my point of view and it's only mine, things must be use or they will fade in time and vanish.

> I'm looking for a RxDOS 7.2 bootdisk with some explanation about the
> settings to use of another interpreter.
<cm is the resident RxDOS expert, but I don't know if even he considers his fork stable yet (if ever). Consensus mostly seems to be that it's always been too buggy for average use.
>As I said, the boot disk is mostly for memory comparison, stability wasn't my purpose, and I ask because I didn't manage to have a 6.2 working disk...

Anyway, thanks for all your comments and to preserve the copyright.

Nico

Rugxulo

Usono,
13.09.2018, 04:43

@ nico7550

Multi Kernel bootdisk

Post reply

> < Manual instructions or patches are probably wiser than full
> download.
> >With 15 kernels, the instructions will be far more longer than the actual
> NFO and nobody will follow them until the end, it take me some weeks to
> manage to have something working and I lost many days of personal life
> doing it.

I sympathize and don't blame you for not wasting time in more tedious work for little gain.

But ... you could focus on writing about one or two prominent shareable kernels (e.g. FreeDOS and EDR-DOS), at first. That's what I would do. ;-)

> EDR-DOS 7.01, last stable ?
> I pretty sure it is, I try to use the latest file (using file date if I
> cannot find more information)

Check the WayBack Archive, "Latest stable" was apparently 2005 with "WIP" in 2011.

> > I don't think linking to such software is okay
> > Sorry, people interest may still ask me a link for personal use.

It's not so much my opinion as moreso me being cautious for Robert's sake (and also myself, to a lesser degree). I also think he probably expects me to be actively cautious about such things on this forum. It's truly antique software but legal authorities are overly zealous about such enforcement. Admittedly, copyright law is the least interesting part about computers! The less worries, the better!

> >I still need to update my MetaDOS
> <I'm interest with your metados, in any state it is, if it can boot and use
> 4DOS as interpreter :-)

It's just a (relatively?) simple boot disk meant for expanding via emulator (using packet drivers). There's no reason it can't technically use 4DOS, but I've stuck to FreeDOS' FreeCOM (2006 TC compile) for now. (There have actually been some bugfixes upstream and FreeCOM prereleases lately, so I may switch to that newer version eventually.)

> NFO file, why PNG?, Because it allow people to read it online without
> downloading it

I still haven't read it, but I'm curious!

> [i]> Special credit to Japheth for JEMMEX, from my point of view, the best
> all
> > around memory manager.
> <Have you seen the latest prerelease?
> >The latest is include in the 8.4 release, I hope he will not be upset of
> it, but from my point of view and it's only mine, things must be use or
> they will fade in time and vanish.

It's (mostly?) open source, so he shouldn't complain.

> Anyway, thanks for all your comments and to preserve the copyright.

FYI, FreeDOS tries very hard to be copyleft (or at least open source) in most things. Feel free to get on the mailing lists if you have any questions.

nico7550

13.09.2018, 23:24

@ Rugxulo

Multi Kernel bootdisk

Post reply

> But ... you could focus on writing about one or two prominent shareable
> kernels (e.g. FreeDOS and EDR-DOS), at first. That's what I would do. ;-)
Sorry, even if I admire those who code in ASM, it's far beyond my knowledge, I can only code in C#, and I have only a good level in KSH and BATCH...

> > EDR-DOS 7.01, last stable ?
> > I pretty sure it is, I try to use the latest file (using file date if I
> > cannot find more information)
>
> Check the
> WayBack
> Archive, "Latest stable" was apparently 2005 with "WIP" in 2011.
I use the same URL to grab the files I use, so it's the WIP version...

You know what, I'm really happy to be able to discuss about DOS with peoples who care about it, I was sad to turn around alone :-)

Rugxulo Usono, 14.09.2018, 05:02 @ nico7550	Multi Kernel bootdisk Post reply
	> Sorry, even if I admire those who code in ASM, it's far beyond my > knowledge, I can only code in C#, and I have only a good level in KSH and > BATCH... FreeDOS is mostly in C, even the kernel. Sure, there's some assembly too, but if you can handle C, you can certainly learn 8086 assembly (even if only via disassembly).

ecm

Düsseldorf, Germany,
11.09.2018, 21:55

@ Rugxulo

Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status

Post reply

> > I'm looking for a RxDOS 7.2 bootdisk with some explanation about the
> > settings to use of another interpreter.
>
> cm is the resident RxDOS expert, but I don't know if even she
> considers her fork stable yet (if ever). Consensus mostly seems to be that
> it's always been too buggy for average use.

FTFY.

And yes, I do not recommend using RxDOS yet. The upcoming RxDOS 7.24 will still lack many features. Stable versions are planned for RxDOS 7.30 and later. At this pace, that can still take a long time.

Its bitbucket page https://bitbucket.org/ecm/rxdos-7.2x has binaries to download, but anyone using RxDOS currently should be able to assemble it themselves. A simple build script [for bash on unixoids] is provided. Only NASM is needed nowadays, optionally hg can be used to embed a revision ID into the files. I'd recommend that, seeing as RxDOS is mainly under the copyleft of the GPL v2+, so must be distributed with sources.

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nico7550

12.09.2018, 12:15

@ ecm

Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status

Post reply

Hi cm,

Thanks, I will wait the 7.4 to try incorporating it in my bootdisk for memory comparison.

Waiting this, I try to build a 7.22 bootdisk with the batch tool but the resulted disk freeze at boot (86Box/Award 430VX/Pentium 233MMX/32Mo)...

Starting RxDOS...
init: Loading shell "RXCMD.exe" arguments: ""

Another point, RxD_BOOT.COM seems to do a bit more than only changing the boot sector, can you give me some details ? I ever got this type of problem with PC-DOS.

I ask because if I export the boot sector from a fresh build boot disk and inject it manually in a blank disk then adding RxBIO.SYS, RxCMD.EXE and RxDOS.SYS, I only got "Not an RxDOS system disk or disk error"...

Thanks

ecm

Düsseldorf, Germany,
12.09.2018, 17:55

@ nico7550

Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status

Post reply

> Waiting this, I try to build a 7.22 bootdisk with the batch tool but the
> resulted disk freeze at boot (86Box/Award 430VX/Pentium 233MMX/32Mo)...
>
> Starting RxDOS...
> init: Loading shell "RXCMD.exe" arguments: ""

I don't know why this happens, but I won't spend any effort on trying to debug an outdated release. If you want to continue, you should use the most recent revision from the repo.

> Another point, RxD_BOOT.COM seems to do a bit more than only changing the
> boot sector, can you give me some details ? I ever got this type of problem
> with PC-DOS.
>
> I ask because if I export the boot sector from a fresh build boot disk and
> inject it manually in a blank disk then adding RxBIO.SYS, RxCMD.EXE and
> RxDOS.SYS, I only got "Not an RxDOS system disk or disk error"...

As shown in https://bitbucket.org/ecm/rxdos-7.2x/commits/28af4...6aa6afd604abac058b48258ea#LRxAPP/RxBOOT.ASMF135 RxBOOT.ASM line 135, the old boot sector required RxBIO.SYS as the very first directory entry and RxDOS.SYS as the second one. That means there must not be any volume labels, and also no LFN entries either [so strictly it is RXBIO.SYS and RXDOS.SYS, note the capital X]. And when copying the files, you have to copy RXBIO.SYS first and RXDOS.SYS second.

The more recent ldosboot loaders [and bootable lDebug's "boot protocol=RxDOS.2" command, which is compatible] will find RxDOS.COM in any directory entry within the root directory. You can use instsect (also hosted in my bitbucket) to install ldosboot's loaders into FAT12 and FAT16 partitions. [It doesn't support the FAT32 loader yet.]

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nico7550 12.09.2018, 19:41 @ ecm	Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status Post reply
	My mistake, I was using the 7.3 not the 7.22 when the freeze occur... And really thanks for the tips about the order of the file, I will test it really soon, sorry to not read the ASM language. Nico

ecm

Düsseldorf, Germany,
12.09.2018, 19:49

@ nico7550

Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status

Post reply

> My mistake, I was using the 7.3 not the 7.22 when the freeze occur...

You can't be using 7.30 yet. And 7.23 isn't built from the most recent revision.

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nico7550 13.09.2018, 23:20 @ ecm	Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status Post reply
	Hi cm, Thanks for the tips about the files order and the disk label, it solve my PC-DOS problem and allow me to free 60kb on my bootdisk (exit RAWRITE2, IMGCPY and CWSDPMI). Regarding RxDOS, I will wait for your next release, while waiting, can you explain me how to use another interpreter than RxCMD.EXE in CONFIG.DEF? Thanks Nico

ecm

Düsseldorf, Germany,
14.09.2018, 09:35

@ nico7550

Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status

Post reply

> Thanks for the tips about the files order and the disk label, it solve my
> PC-DOS problem and allow me to free 60kb on my bootdisk (exit RAWRITE2,
> IMGCPY and CWSDPMI).

I don't understand.

> Regarding RxDOS, I will wait for your next release, while waiting, can you
> explain me how to use another interpreter than RxCMD.EXE in CONFIG.DEF?

In RxCONFIG.SYS (preferred) or CONFIG.SYS, use a shell= line.

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nico7550

14.09.2018, 12:50

@ ecm

Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status

Post reply

> > Thanks for the tips about the files order and the disk label, it solve
> my
> > PC-DOS problem and allow me to free 60kb on my bootdisk (exit RAWRITE2,
> > IMGCPY and CWSDPMI).
>
> I don't understand.
>
Sorry, a few days ago, I ask you about the fact that I didn't manage to boot a manually create RxDOS disk by injecting myself the boot sector. I add the same problem with PC-DOS, your suggestion about the files order and unlabeled disk apply to it too.
Before that, when I wanted to switch to PC-DOS kernel, I use IMGCPY in a ramdisk to build a new image and then RAWRITE2 to write it. Now, I just move my file in a ramdisk, quick format the disk and copy the files in the right order.

ecm

Düsseldorf, Germany,
14.09.2018, 14:19

@ nico7550

Multi Kernel bootdisk - RxDOS status

Post reply

> Sorry, a few days ago, I ask you about the fact that I didn't manage to
> boot a manually create RxDOS disk by injecting myself the boot sector.

Yes.

> I
> add the same problem with PC-DOS, your suggestion about the files order and
> unlabeled disk apply to it too.
> Before that, when I wanted to switch to PC-DOS kernel, I use IMGCPY in a
> ramdisk to build a new image and then RAWRITE2 to write it. Now, I just
> move my file in a ramdisk, quick format the disk and copy the files in the
> right order.

Ah okay, all right.

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