DOS ain't dead

CLINT

Tennessee,
21.06.2021, 16:41

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct (Emulation)

Greetings to all; just joined this past weekend.

I've never touched FreeDOS before, and don't know the first thing about it.

Neither do I know the first thing about this forum, so I welcome advice and direction on procedure, protocol, etiquette, whatever.

Immediate Goal: To make current day videos (MP3, MP4, whatever) of pre-windows DOS software

My guess is that step #1 will be the emulation. At this moment, the only two words in my current vocabulary are "QEMU", and "VirtualBox".

Anyone who knows what they're doing, please correct me.

I welcome advice, direction, and suggestions from anyone who has greater knowledge and experience than I do.

Laaca

Czech republic,
21.06.2021, 20:34

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

hello!
Perhaps better platform for discussion how to create a videos about FreeDOS if the freedos-user mailing list.
Do not hesitate to register to their mailing list and ask there.
http://freedos.org/forums/

---
DOS-u-akbar!

CLINT

Tennessee,
27.06.2021, 18:31

@ Laaca

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> :
> Perhaps better platform for discussion how to create a videos about FreeDOS
> if the freedos-user mailing list.
> Do not hesitate to register to their mailing list and ask there.
> :

Saw the blurbs about that.

At this moment, that volume of E-Mail would destroy me.

Is there some sort of reader with a search function ? That might make it work.

My inbox is already overwhelming me daily.

But thanks for the suggestion.

Some day, Somehow, I am going to have this running on my screen and make my stuff.

Keep the good ideas rolling my way.

Berlin, Germany,
27.06.2021, 21:17

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> At this moment, that volume of E-Mail would destroy me.
>
> Is there some sort of reader with a search function ? That might make it
> work.

Is there some reader without a search function?
Try Microsoft Outlook, Mozilla Thunderbird, Google's Gmail, ...

---
Forum admin

mceric

Germany,
21.06.2021, 20:35

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hi!

I assume that you already use Windows, Linux or MacOS. So you will first have to find a video screen recording app for that, with sound recording. If possible, freeware and open source.

Next, you want to run DOS inside a window. You can use emulators for entire PC to do that: VMware (closed source), Bochs, QEMU, VirtualBox, PCEM and so on.

VirtualBox is popular, but has some compatibility problems with DOS games, because it is meant to run more modern software.

Alternatively, you can use emulators which target specifically DOS users, such as DOSBOX or DOSEMU2. Those usually come with a minimal DOS pre-installed and you can use a directory in your modern operating system as what will look like your C: drive inside the DOS window, which makes installation of games easier.

In both cases, the emulators can create a virtual Sound Blaster 16, which is important because almost all old games are not able to use modern soundcards.

You could also do recordings by playing the games on a real computer. In that case, you should use a computer which uses a real, old ISA sound card. Which you can get second hand. The problem is that you also need an old mainboard with old CPU and old RAM and so on, so the entire thing will be old!

You could use a normal camera and microphone to record that, or connect the line out of the old PC to the line in of a new one. You can also get hardware to capture the VGA output of the old PC and record it directly.

I think the easiest solution for you would be to use DOSBOX (if Windows) or DOSEMU2 (if Linux) and some suitable screen recording software, without getting any special hardware.

Cheers, Eric

---
FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...

CLINT Tennessee, 27.06.2021, 18:57 @ mceric	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	@mceric, your message contains much good material. When I attempt to compose a response, my machine tells me that I have one or more words which are not allowed. Can someone point me to a list of those words ?

CLINT Tennessee, 27.06.2021, 19:08 @ mceric	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	> You can also get hardware to capture the VGA output of the old PC and record it directly. That is exactly what I want. I have searched for such a thing myself. At this moment, I don't have a sufficient vocabulary to ask the appropriate questions. Is there a place on this site where I can upload a diagram ? I have this drawn out in a PDF file, which I could easily make into a PNG file.

Berlin, Germany,
27.06.2021, 21:12

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> Is there a place on this site where I can upload a diagram ? I have this
> drawn out in a PDF file, which I could easily make into a PNG file.

Just use the 'upload' button to the right of the edit window.

---
Forum admin

CLINT Tennessee, 28.06.2021, 18:19 @ mceric	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	Thank you Eric, for this sentence... > "...You can also get hardware to capture the VGA output of the old PC and record it directly. This is precisely what I want, but I don't have the vocabulary or nomenclature in my brain to state it in words. Will you please tell me... - What is the name of that green box ? - Where am I likely to find it for sale ?

Oso2k

28.06.2021, 21:55

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> - What is the name of that green box ?
>
> - Where am I likely to find it for sale ?

The green box depends on what graphics you have. Look up folks like LGR, Adrian's Digital Basement for the tools they use to capture old graphics.

For my needs, I'm standardizing on capturing VGA and converting to HDMI. I'm using this VGA converter
VGA to HDMI Converter

with this HDMI to USB capture stick. Works on Mac, Linux, and Windows very vell.

HDMI to USB Video Capture

Older graphics standards (CGA, EGA, B&W Mono) or other outputs need different solutions. Also, VGA splitters or duplicators can be helpful if you want to see the output on screen while capturing.

CLINT Tennessee, 29.06.2021, 02:52 @ Oso2k	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	> > with this HDMI to USB capture stick. Works on Mac, Linux, and Windows very > vell. > > HDMI to USB Video > Capture > Beautiful. > > "...I'm using this VGA converter > VGA to HDMI > Converter ..." > Horrible; price is out of the question today. Looks like I'm going to have to do everything in software on a windows machine. But hey, thanks for the extra brain cells on my behalf.

DosWorld

04.07.2021, 12:05

@ Oso2k

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> with this HDMI to USB capture stick. Works on Mac, Linux, and Windows very
> vell.

Can't recomend this device. Yes it will work, but with some restrictions:

1. it does not allow view video on monitor. (only in video-capture software window)
2. This device is have many heat, so will be not bad make a few holes (to pass wind) or remove cover.

But this device looks a little bit better then "EZ" capture card family.

> Older graphics standards (CGA, EGA, B&W Mono) or other outputs need
> different solutions. Also, VGA splitters or duplicators can be helpful if
> you want to see the output on screen while capturing.

Yes, can have problem with non standard (hdmi) resolutions like 320*200 or lores like 320*240.

---
Make DOS great again!

Carthago delenda est, Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse.

mceric

Germany,
28.06.2021, 22:09

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> > "...You can also get hardware to capture the VGA output of the old PC and
> record it directly.

In the old days, for capturing analog video signals,
possibly including VGA, you used a FRAMEGRABBER box.

Today, people instead buy scaler boxes to connect
old computers to new huge LCD screens:

https://videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-scan-converter/

Not what you need but still fancy technology ;-)

---
FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...

RayeR

CZ,
29.06.2021, 13:07

@ mceric

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> In the old days, for capturing analog video signals,
> possibly including VGA, you used a FRAMEGRABBER box.

Hehe, I just design a thing called Framegrabber box at work but it's not intended for old analog signals. It will have various changeable input modules for digital video formats and output to network stream and files on USB/SD/HDD encoded in h264. In theory someone could also design an input module with ADC for VGA or anything else but that products already exists in cheaper form...
https://www.amazon.com/VGA2USB-Video-Grabber-Capture-Device/dp/B000UO94DU
Older graphics card output can be converted to VGA
https://www.serdashop.com/MCE2VGA
Another retrovideo stuff here
https://videogameperfection.com/product-category/converters-and-cables

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Berlin, Germany,
21.06.2021, 22:23

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> Immediate Goal: To make current day videos (MP3, MP4, whatever) of
> pre-windows DOS software
>
> My guess is that step #1 will be the emulation. At this moment, the only
> two words in my current vocabulary are "QEMU", and "VirtualBox".

DOSBox supports recording videos: https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Recording_Video

---
Forum admin

jhall

21.06.2021, 22:47

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hi Clint - welcome to FreeDOS!

I agree with Laaca that you may also be interested in the freedos-user email list. That's a great place to discuss general FreeDOS topics.

I also record videos about FreeDOS, for our YouTube channel. But more videos about FreeDOS are always welcome! It's always great when others record their own videos or write articles about FreeDOS.

In case it helps you: I record my videos using OBS Studio, and booting FreeDOS in a QEMU virtual machine. I run Linux on my desktop. You can find a full description of my video recording setup at this article:
https://opensource.com/article/21/4/obs-youtube

And above all: have fun!! Let your enthusiasm for DOS shine through. I'm sure people will love watching your videos if they know you're enjoying it, too. :-)

CLINT Tennessee, 27.06.2021, 19:16 @ jhall	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	> In case it helps you: I record my videos using OBS Studio, I have never succeeded in any significant undertaking with OBS Studio. But thanks for the suggestion

Rugxulo Usono, 03.07.2021, 20:00 @ CLINT	QEMU or VirtualBox with FreeDOS? try MetaDOS Post reply
	Just for completeness .... For emulation, I made MetaDOS (last updated in 2019) as a slim way to get started with FreeDOS. It's not great, far from perfect, very messy (and a little outdated), but it may still give you some clues. Then again, I would still "mostly" recommend the latest official FreeDOS distribution overall.

CLINT

Tennessee,
05.07.2021, 18:04

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Okay Kids, I can't believe the help you guys have been.

I asked the group to advise me, and yes, you guys did; great advice indeed.

I asked the group to direct me, and yes again; expert directions.

Thank you one zillion times apiece.

And now, here is my existing plan (please advise and direct this too)...

- Step-1: (Now Complete) Purchase a 32 GB Thumb drive

- Step-2: Put all my VirtualBox files on this thumb drive.

- Step-3: Install FreeDOS on this thumb drive.

Please Advise and direct me on Steps 1 and 2.

Anything immediately stupid in my plans ?

My Goal Right Now: A totally fake x86 DOS running in a window on my windows screen.

Thanks guys, you don't know how much you are helping me

Rugxulo Usono, 05.07.2021, 18:30 @ CLINT	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	Most people would suggest RUFUS to install to jump drive. But be sure to use the FreeDOS .iso or else you'll end up with (by default) an extremely minimal DOS installation.

tkchia

05.07.2021, 19:49

@ Rugxulo

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hello Rugxulo, hello CLINT,

> Most people would suggest RUFUS to
> install to jump drive. But be sure to use the FreeDOS .iso or else you'll
> end up with (by default) an extremely minimal DOS installation.

Since the installation will happen inside a VirtualBox virtual machine, perhaps using Rufus is not the best course of action here?

(I think Rufus would be useful when installing FreeDOS on a real machine...)

Thank you!

---
https://gitlab.com/tkchia · https://codeberg.org/tkchia · 😴 "MOV AX,0D500H+CMOS_REG_D+NMI"

tkchia

05.07.2021, 19:52

@ Rugxulo

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hello CLINT, hello Rugxulo,

Me, I think the next things to do are to simply

(1) format the thumb drive --- if needed --- so that it has space for storing files;

(2) copy the FreeDOS .iso as an ordinary file, onto the thumb drive; then

(3) create a blank file on the thumb drive to serve as a virtual "hard disk" (this can probably be done from within VirtualBox?).

The .iso file can then serve as a virtual "CD-ROM" within the VirtualBox VM.

Thank you!

---
https://gitlab.com/tkchia · https://codeberg.org/tkchia · 😴 "MOV AX,0D500H+CMOS_REG_D+NMI"

mceric

Germany,
05.07.2021, 21:04

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> - Step-1: (Now Complete) Purchase a 32 GB Thumb drive
>
> - Step-2: Put all my VirtualBox files on this thumb drive.
>
> - Step-3: Install FreeDOS on this thumb drive.
>
> Please Advise and direct me on Steps 1 and 2.
> Anything immediately stupid in my plans ?

It would be a lot faster to keep your VirtualBox
files on your harddisk or SSD. Why an USB drive?

> My Goal Right Now: A totally fake x86 DOS running
> in a window on my windows screen.

You can do that with VirtualBox, but you probably
get better speed and compatibility with DOSBOX.

You do not even have to install FreeDOS in DOSBOX,
it has a pre-installed DOS. But you can install
your own FreeDOS if you want.

For both VirtualBox and DOSBOX, you will probably
configure it to open your FreeDOS install CD ISO
and fake "boot" from it for that purpose. Your C:
drive can be either a diskimage or a directory
in DOSBOX, but must be a diskimage for VirtualBox.

A diskimage is basically one large file with all
the raw data of a simulated harddisk or other disk.

---
FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...

CLINT

Tennessee,
06.07.2021, 06:11

@ mceric

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Thanks to each and every one.

Please let me state this more precisely: I am, at this moment, trying to stay away from DosBox.

They have made it very clear that they don't want guys like me using their stuff for my purposes.

Oh, and that's fine. No gripe no grumble here.

They have just stated on their site, and have made it quite clear, that DosBox is for a totally different purpose.

I want to respect that and avoid them for the purpose of good will toward all.

FreeDOS is clearly what I want to use.

(Or at least that's my current belief.)

>
> It would be a lot faster to keep your VirtualBox
> files on your harddisk or SSD. Why an USB drive?
>

At this moment, losing speed is not a show stopper.

The purpose of all the USB stuff is to...

-A- Keep everything separate
-B- Allow me to move around on different computers

CLINT Tennessee, 06.07.2021, 16:10 @ CLINT	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	> > > > It would be a lot faster to keep your VirtualBox > > files on your harddisk or SSD. > > > Yep. Evidently, Oracle thinks so too. I do not have the option of installing on my Thumb Drive. It will be on the C: drive and I can't put it anywhere else. Not the worst thing, I suppose. Hopefully, there's a good reason for this; although at this moment I really can't see it

CLINT Tennessee, 06.07.2021, 17:02 @ CLINT	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	[img\| Okay guys, did I get it right ? This might be more clear...

tkchia

06.07.2021, 18:43

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hello CLINT,

Looks good. As mentioned before, you can try following the instructions at http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/VirtualBox.

The illustrated user interface may be a bit different, but the basic steps to set up the virtual PC should be the same.

If you get stuck at any point, we can try to help.

Thank you!

---
https://gitlab.com/tkchia · https://codeberg.org/tkchia · 😴 "MOV AX,0D500H+CMOS_REG_D+NMI"

CLINT

Tennessee,
06.07.2021, 20:12

@ tkchia

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hey tkchia,

Thanks.

As far as...

>
> If you get stuck at any point, we can try to help.
>

At this moment I haven't taken any action.

I am just reading the instructions through.

The fake hard drive (Typically, "C:") looks like I just put in a size, and then click a button. I like it; that's my kind of mental effort !

My one big brain failure is: How do I create a Virtual Floppy Drive ?

For that matter, two of them.

And while we're on the topic; How do I create a Virtual CD-ROM Drive ?

So, I'll need...

:flower: Fake Floppy Drive "A:"
Fake Floppy Drive "B:"
Fake CD-ROM Drive "D:" (I Think)

(The flowers are because I don't know how to make bullets here.)

mceric

Germany,
06.07.2021, 21:28

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> The fake hard drive (Typically, "C:") looks like I just put in a size, and
> then click a button. I like it; that's my kind of mental effort !

:-)

> My one big brain failure is: How do I create a Virtual Floppy Drive ?

Why do you want a floppy drive at all?

> And while we're on the topic; How do I create a Virtual CD-ROM Drive ?

You can probably tell the simulated computer to use either your real CD-ROM or, often more convenient, an ISO image. So tell it to use the FreeDOS 1.3 install CD ISO image as virtual CD and boot from that to install FreeDOS to your virtual harddisk :-)

---
FreeDOS / DOSEMU2 / ...

CLINT

Tennessee,
07.07.2021, 19:18

@ mceric

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

>
> Why do you want a floppy drive at all?
>

I want a fake floppy drive (in fact I want two of them) because I'm going to be replicating the installation of software from way back in the days when we use floppy disks for software distribution.

There is scientific evidence from hieroglyphics on the inside of pyramids, and cro-magnon cave writings, that prehistoric neanderthals used this method of putting software on their PCs :lol:

At this moment, I haven't fully figured out how I'm going to make the fake floppy diskettes; at least not yet.

RayeR

CZ,
08.07.2021, 03:32

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

> At this moment, I haven't fully figured out how I'm going to make the fake
> floppy diskettes; at least not yet.

You can use e.g. WinImage GUI software for windows. It can create an empty floppy images of different sizes and you can put your files inside simply drag&drop them. It can also take/put image from/to real floppy and open existing image files.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

CLINT

Tennessee,
13.07.2021, 08:27

@ tkchia

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

>
> If you get stuck at any point, we can try to help.
>

Multitasking is the root of all evil.

Don't remember exactly what I did wrong, but my own attempts to remove the directory and start over have been complete failures on all fronts.

I do not remember exactly where I dropped the ball in the installation; I'm pretty sure that I got through the Virtual Hard Drive (The "VHD" thing) and I do remember doing something with changing the "NAT" to the "Bridged Adapter"

I was trying to record all this with video screen capture, but that added the multi-tasking component into the recipe for project failure; and now I have no clue of how to delete the wrong stuff I've done and start over from Square One.

Latest Chapter: Virtual Box now tells me...

------
No log files found. Press the Refresh button to rescan the log folder C:\Users\MURPHY\VirtualBox VMs\FreeDOS 1.2A\Logs.
------

I told everyone that I was a clueless newbee, and now we have proof.

I hope that I have attached the screen cap of the window to this message properly.

[image]

tkchia

13.07.2021, 11:07

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hello CLINT,

> I was trying to record all this with video screen capture, but that added
> the multi-tasking component into the recipe for project failure; and now I
> have no clue of how to delete the wrong stuff I've done and start over from
> Square One.

Are you able to remove the whole virtual machine? As in, right click on the "FreeDOS 1.2A" name and select "Remove"?

Thank you!

---
https://gitlab.com/tkchia · https://codeberg.org/tkchia · 😴 "MOV AX,0D500H+CMOS_REG_D+NMI"

CLINT

Tennessee,
13.07.2021, 12:02

@ tkchia

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

You asked...

> Are you able to remove the whole virtual machine? As in, right click on
> the "FreeDOS 1.2A" name and select "Remove"?

Yes.

In response to "Remove", I choose "Delete All Files"

After that, I try to add a new machine.

I give him the not-quite-same name of: "FreeDOS 1.2ZZ" (Two extra "Z" chars appended)

I'll give you play by play from that point on if it will help things, but the end result is that I choose most of the defaults according to the wiki directions...

[[ Memory Size | Hard Disk | VHD | Dynamically Allocated | 500.00 MB ]]

After I tell Oracle VM VirtualBox to make the VHD 500.00 MB (The default choice) he blinks for just a moment, flashes up the little window which was two or three choices before this one (for barely a second, if that long) and I next see almost the exact same message and window as the one I just removed; the only difference being that I now have my "ZZ" altered name in the left side of the window as well as the text message on the right pane.

This time I do have a video screen cap...

- 82 Seconds long
- MP4 file format
- 3.11 MB

...can I upload it here ? Is there a place where I can put it for you guys to see it in action, step by step ?

tkchia

13.07.2021, 15:28

@ CLINT

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct

Post reply

Hello CLINT,

> After I tell Oracle VM VirtualBox to make the VHD 500.00 MB (The default
> choice) he blinks for just a moment, flashes up the little window which was
> two or three choices before this one (for barely a second, if that long)
> and I next see almost the exact same message and window as the one I just
> removed; the only difference being that I now have my "ZZ" altered name in
> the left side of the window as well as the text message on the right pane.
> This time I do have a video screen cap...
> - 82 Seconds long
> - MP4 file format
> - 3.11 MB
> ...can I upload it here ? Is there a place where I can put it for you guys
> to see it in action, step by step ?

Maybe there is no need to do that (for now).

I am now suspecting that the error message you are getting is non-fatal --- maybe you just need to close the "No Logs" tabs somehow, then you can get right back at business.

Perhaps you can try to see if any of the following work...

(1) Press the "Start" button on the top right hand corner?
or
(2) Go to the "Log" menu (top) and see if there is an option to close the log file tab?
or
(3) Click on "Tools" (left side) then click back again on the "FreeDOS 1.2ZZ" virtual machine?

(Anyway, on my machine at least, VirtualBox only creates logs (for VM execution) when you actually start running a VM. And the user interface is slightly different. Namely, the logs (if any) are shown in a different window.)

[image]

Thank you!

---
https://gitlab.com/tkchia · https://codeberg.org/tkchia · 😴 "MOV AX,0D500H+CMOS_REG_D+NMI"

CLINT Tennessee, 13.07.2021, 21:13 @ tkchia	Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct Post reply
	Okay kids, we be good ? I'll worry about the message about the mouse pointer later. For now, this concept of "Thank You!" is like, screaming inside my brain.

Clueless Newbee ; Please Advise And Direct (Emulation)

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QEMU or VirtualBox with FreeDOS? try MetaDOS

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