DOS ain't dead - Hail to himemX.exe to allow run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

RayeR

CZ,
30.03.2008, 16:35
(edited by RayeR, 30.03.2008, 16:45)

Hail to himemX.exe to allow run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine! (Announce)

I know this is a DOS forum but maybe someone use Win9X too as a DOS multitasker :)
Maybe you know that Win9x has some several memory limits which makes you sick when you try to run them on machine equiped with more than 512MB. In case you use 512-1024MB the help is quite easy. Just needs to limit
MaxPhysPage=40000
and
MaxFileCache=261120
in system.ini to not overflow vcache buffers and everythings go fine.
But before few days I extend RAM to 2GB and got serious problems windows did't respected memory limitation by MaxPhysPage=40000 and it hanged during boot. I was messing with vcache and physpage values quite long time till I was able to boot but system was very unstable and some features didn't work.

I also got idea that I can eat 1GB of XMS by XMSDSK but this didn't help.
There's also a commercial patch for 20$ which should solve it.

But then I remember times when use QEMM 9.0 which cannot see more than 256MB - good ram limiter but Win98SE cannot boot with QEMM - QEMM crashes.

And finally I remember HimemX 3.32 on Japhets site. This XMS manager has the magic /MAX=xmssizekb parameter. So I limit XMS to 1GB and try to boot Win98 and viola it boots without any problems and seems to work same as when I have only 1GB physical memory. Many thanks for this feature which may seem weirt to other users who wonder why someone needs to trash out a gig of RAM but sometims it's really usefull. Of course I will utilize entire 2GB under XP and Linux and maybe DOS :)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Rugxulo

Usono,
31.03.2008, 00:50

@ RayeR

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

Hi,
I haven't used Win95 in years (and never really used Win98), but several recycled cpus my brother acquired recently use it. It's fast, but lacking in some things (e.g. newer Firefox 3 in June will drop it as target). Of course, I don't think it sucks (from what I've read, it's more stable than WinME, which some people say was the worst Windows ever). But it's fast and less bloated, at least. (And obviously you have other OSes you use too. Good.)

However, doesn't Win9x has (almost?) non-existant Unicode support? Also, WinME introduced things like USB drivers bundled in the OS, automatic updates, system restore, Windows Imaging (for scanners et al.), etc.

My bro currently has one cpu that he wants to use iTunes on (he just got an iPod), and iTunes won't work except on Win2k and above. So, I browsed eBay a bit to look around. Apparently, you can upgrade to Win2k (which may be cheaper than buying the full thing), even if technically Win2k wasn't meant for home desktop use, so you'll be stuck with something like Win2k "Professional" (emulated DOS support from there on out). Also, Win2k is still supported by MS for two more years, but Win9x is not.

---
Know your limits.h

Steve US, 31.03.2008, 01:36 @ Rugxulo	run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine! Post reply
	> However, doesn't Win9x has (almost?) non-existant Unicode support? That's a fair summary. > Also, WinME introduced things like USB drivers bundled in the OS, > automatic updates, system restore, Windows Imaging (for scanners et al.), > etc. 95C introduced some USB support. The driver was also available to plug into 95B, but it didn't do much.

RayeR

CZ,
31.03.2008, 03:05

@ Steve

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

I don't care about win 95, they was too buggy (later OSR2 was better but still...) and WinME missing DOS in default, are more bloated, etc. So Win98SE (Second Edition) seems to me the best of 9x line.

What can be handled in Win98SE using varous mods, patches, etc. made by community around it:

* can run on latest intel chipsets (tried up to P31, intel original drivers covers 8xx family) (unofficial updated INF files). No problems with SATA in IDE mode. Most of gigabit eth controllers still have 9x support.

* can be used with nvidia GeFroce up to 7xxx and maybe 8xxx (nobody tested) with unofficial forceware 82.69 and ATI also had some support

* can use up to 1GB RAM without commercial patch, up to 3.x GB with R.Loew's patch.

* can handle USB 2.0 mass storege drivers without need to install new drivers for every USB device (usefull for US keys, card reades, USB HDDs...) with nUSB package.

* can handle big HDD - LBA48 patch for ESDI_506.PDR with large >128GB FAT32 partitions. I have it installed on 500GB SATA HDD.

* There's attempt to make work some 2k/XP only appz by Project KernelEx

And much more you find on MSFN forums

So I think Win98 is not dead yet :)

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Japheth

Germany (South),
31.03.2008, 03:33

@ RayeR

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

Hi Rayer,

> No problems with SATA in IDE mode.

I'd prefer to run the SATA controller in "native" mode. Is there a "patched" ESDI_506.PDR available which makes Win98SE compatible with this mode?

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MS-DOS forever!

RayeR

CZ,
31.03.2008, 12:24

@ Japheth

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

> I'd prefer to run the SATA controller in "native" mode. Is there a
> "patched" ESDI_506.PDR available which makes Win98SE compatible with this
> mode?

Currently no. And I don't know about any attempt to do this. In my case win98 hangs during boot when SATA is not in IDE mode. Why you need native/ahci mode?
I tried to switch to AHCI under XP using intel driver but didn't observed any performance gain so I switch back.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Japheth

Germany (South),
31.03.2008, 21:30

@ RayeR

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

> Currently no. And I don't know about any attempt to do this. In my case
> win98 hangs during boot when SATA is not in IDE mode. Why you need
> native/ahci mode?

I need both "legacy" channels AND - at least - one SATA device.

---
MS-DOS forever!

RayeR

CZ,
01.04.2008, 13:13

@ Japheth

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

> I need both "legacy" channels AND - at least - one SATA device.

Understand. Then I cannot help you, I just know my win98 hangs during boot in this mode :( DOS hasn't any problem with it when using extended int 13h access.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Japheth

Germany (South),
01.04.2008, 13:29

@ RayeR

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

> Understand. Then I cannot help you, I just know my win98 hangs during boot
> in this mode :( DOS hasn't any problem with it when using extended int 13h
> access.

It's not that bad. I can rename/delete ESDI_506.PDR, then Win98 uses "MS-DOS compatibility mode" for all drive access and it works with my config. However, it's unable to reboot properly, the machine freezes.

---
MS-DOS forever!

RayeR

CZ,
01.04.2008, 21:19

@ Japheth

run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine!

Post reply

> It's not that bad. I can rename/delete ESDI_506.PDR, then Win98 uses
> "MS-DOS compatibility mode" for all drive access and it works with my
> config. However, it's unable to reboot properly, the machine freezes.

Yes this also works but extremely slow I got about 2,5MB/s. But I didn't tried to load UDMA if it could help.

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

RayeR

CZ,
02.04.2008, 03:56

@ RayeR

crazy himem - no need for /max

Post reply

It's crazy but one user of MSFN forum found that limiting XMS by /MAX=... parameter is NOT really needed. It then use MaxPhysPage and I was able to increase it from 40000 up to 488FF and got some megs +. But why it then don't work with MS himem.sys? Is it a timebomb gift from Bill or monkey-steeve? :-D

[image]

---
DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Japheth

Germany (South),
03.04.2008, 11:09

@ RayeR

crazy himem - no need for /max

Post reply

> It's crazy but one user of MSFN forum found that limiting XMS by /MAX=...
> parameter is NOT really needed. It then use MaxPhysPage and I was able to
> increase it from 40000 up to 488FF and got some megs +. But why it then
> don't work with MS himem.sys? Is it a timebomb gift from Bill or
> monkey-steeve? :-D

Just tried this trick with setting MaxPhysPage=48000 and HimemX. It works. :-)

About the HD access:

> Yes this also works but extremely slow I got about 2,5MB/s. But I didn't tried
> to load UDMA if it could help.

I just run IDECHECK in a Win98 DOS Box. Since the MB's BIOS supports UDMA, there's no significant speed loss with "compatibility" mode, I got 60 MB/sec transfer speed, same as in true DOS.

---
MS-DOS forever!

RayeR

CZ,
03.04.2008, 12:10

@ Japheth

crazy himem - no need for /max

Post reply

> Just tried this trick with setting MaxPhysPage=48000 and HimemX. It works.
> :-)

BTW you can utilize the rest of RAM by RAMDISK for swap/temp file. It must be allocated at top of XMS - xmsdsk parameter /t. Then change paging drive in system.ini
PagingDrive=Z:

> I just run IDECHECK in a Win98 DOS Box. Since the MB's BIOS supports UDMA,
> there's no significant speed loss with "compatibility" mode, I got 60
> MB/sec transfer speed, same as in true DOS.

Then you're lucky man. BTW what MB/BIOS you have? But be sure on most recent MB you will not have it, its obsolete legacy and "bad" thing for manufacturers :\

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

Rugxulo Usono, 02.04.2008, 02:59 @ RayeR	run Win98SE on 2GB RAM machine! Post reply
	> So I think Win98 is not dead yet :) Good! (Besides, how could it be if FreeDOS itself is still alive?) I just hope these diehards still using Win9x are contributing to testing FreeDOS stuff (even if only on Win9x).