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DOS386

29.08.2007, 16:36
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-( (Miscellaneous)

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2 news:

1. (possibly good)

Arachne is hosted by SourceForge now: http://sourceforge.net/projects/arachne-browser

2. (definitely bad)

It still doesn't work for me. Tried again:

Abnormal program termination in the installer. 2nd attempt, same result (after backuping old installation) :-(

EDR-DOS instead FreeDOS, voila, installed, runs :-| ... almost ... looks nice, but graphics is somewhat buggy occasionally ... other "minor" problem: no access to the Internet :no: Arachne includes support for cca 3 cards, none of them matched (surprisingly ?) ...

Need a driver :surprised:

[image]

Any attempt to improve ^^^ driver support for new hardware is very welcome, but this test util did not work for me :-(

Searched driver ... no reasonable DOS network driver download exists :-( finally ripped it from a piracy boot-disk :-( It contains 6 files (is it really necessary ???), no documentation at all, and needs activation from both CONFIG-file and AUTOSTART-file ... done :-| Seems to match the card model at least ... but doesn't work ... crash in FreeDOS :-( EDR-DOS again, wow, driver initialization seems to pass ... according to one of the driver files, it does sit on INT 60 ... start Arachne ... no driver found at INT 60 :-(

The driver files come from companies I don't love very much like IBM,M$&Symantec , and don't work with Arachne ... no need to use them :lol3:

I looked at Arachne, some observations (OK, this is maybe not the best place to report bugs):

- The "CORE.EXE" seems to be a 16-bit RM executable, but uses 32-bit D**PP stuff to decode PNG and GIF - no optimal CPU usage, and definitely no "fully graphical" web browser on 80286 or 8086 :-(
- The package contains various obsolete and unuseful stuff. This issue, at least, could be very easily fixed :hungry: Found:
- - CWSDPMI v3 from 1995 (desperately obsolete and buggy, should be replaced by CWSDPMI v5 at least, better HDPMI32, even better (but not trivial at all) merge JPG&PNG support into CORE.EXE
- - CTMOUSE 1.8 - just remove (no need to include a mouse driver)
- - USBASPI advertising - no need, not Arachne related at all, and legally problematic
- - # obsolete & inappropriate "info"
- - Various documents and links to ArachneLabs - obsolete, almost no info about Arachne GPL status, up-to-date websites, and maintainers

I wonder how many people (except K. Udo) actually had Arachne working or "use" it seriously, and with what connection type or cards. Especially, whether someone has it working with a PCI Ethernet card.

If someone knows where to search for DOS drivers for PCI Ethernet cards (Linksys) - most what I found so far were "bootdisks" (very questionable stuff, mostly obviously pirated) - please post info :hungry:

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
Steve

Homepage E-mail

US,
29.08.2007, 21:08

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

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> 2 news:
>
> 1. (possibly good)
>
> Arachne is hosted by SourceForge now:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/arachne-browser
It's empty. Everything is still at:
http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/arachne/

> The driver files come from companies I don't love very much like
> IBM,M$&Symantec , and don't work with Arachne ... no need to use them
> :lol3:
You must remove IBM from that list. It's God's computer company, and why it's called Big Blue.

> I looked at Arachne, some observations (OK, this is maybe not the best
> place to report bugs):
>
> no "fully graphical" web browser on 80286 or 8086 :-(
Do you want to wait for an 8086 to bring up a page of graphics?
rr

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Berlin, Germany,
29.08.2007, 21:31

@ Steve
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

Post reply

> > Arachne is hosted by SourceForge now:
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/arachne-browser
>
> It's empty. Everything is still at:
It's not empty. CVS has been filled already.

---
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Steve

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US,
30.08.2007, 00:28

@ rr
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy

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> > > Arachne is hosted by SourceForge now:
> > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/arachne-browser
> >
> > It's empty. Everything is still at:
>
> It's not empty. CVS has been filled already.
Oh, OK, I found it. Hadn't bothered to look deep, after seeing no news other than that there is no news, and no File Releases. Next time.
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
29.08.2007, 21:30

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

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> It still doesn't work for me. Tried again:
>
> Abnormal program termination in the installer. 2nd attempt,
> same result (after backuping old installation) :-(
Please report that to the FreeDOS mailing list or create a Bugzilla entry!

> Searched driver ... no reasonable DOS network driver download exists :-(
For some NICs it might be true, but I doubt in general. Please tell us the complete NIC name!

> finally ripped it from a piracy boot-disk :-( It contains 6 files (is it
Shame on you! :-P

> really necessary ???), no documentation at all, and needs activation from
> both CONFIG-file and AUTOSTART-file ... done :-| Seems to match the card
> model at least ... but doesn't work ... crash in FreeDOS :-( EDR-DOS
> again, wow, driver initialization seems to pass ... according to one of
> the driver files, it does sit on INT 60 ... start Arachne ... no driver
> found at INT 60 :-(
You could still swap your NIC.

> I wonder how many people (except K. Udo) actually had Arachne working or
> "use" it seriously, and with what connection type or cards. Especially,
> whether someone has it working with a PCI Ethernet card.
I successfully use(d) Arachne over PCI NIC, ISA NIC, PC Card NIC, parallel port adapter...

> If someone knows where to search for DOS drivers for PCI Ethernet cards
> (Linksys) - most what I found so far were "bootdisks" (very questionable
> stuff, mostly obviously pirated) - please post info :hungry:
Again: Please tell us the complete NIC name! We are not clairvoyants.

---
Forum admin
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
30.08.2007, 03:50

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

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> Arachne is hosted by SourceForge now:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/arachne-browser
That's indeed news (very very recent), but I already knew it. :-D

> It still doesn't work for me.

Me either. I tried for a few hours like a week or so ago, couldn't get it to work (but I'm braindead regarding networking, ugh ...).

> Abnormal program termination in the installer. 2nd attempt,
> same result (after backuping old installation) :-(
It's not really an installer, AFAIK, only a RAR SFX .EXE, and it expects you install to C: (which I made as a RAM drive before installing b/c the P4 only has one NTFS partition on the main HD).

> looks nice, but graphics is somewhat buggy occasionally ... other "minor"
> problem: no access to the Internet :no: Arachne includes support for cca 3
> cards, none of them matched (surprisingly ?) ...
Yeah, looks VERY nice. Would be better if I could get it working!! :-P

> Need a driver :surprised:
>
> [image]
>
> Any attempt to improve ^^^ driver support for new hardware is very
> welcome, but this test util did not work for me :-(
NICSCAN works for me, and I easily found a packet driver, but I use DSL, so I have no idea how to get Arachne to work. ("my_ip = dhcp" ?? In LANTCP.CFG and / or WATTCP.CFG ???) I dunno, try this: http://www.crynwr.com/

> I looked at Arachne, some observations (OK, this is maybe not the best
> place to report bugs):
>
> - The "CORE.EXE" seems to be a 16-bit RM executable, but uses 32-bit D**PP
> stuff to decode PNG and GIF - no optimal CPU usage, and definitely no
> "fully graphical" web browser on 80286 or 8086 :-(
I think the day is long past where the developers care about 16-bit compatibility in Arachne. But yeah, I recently suggested LxPic to Glenn, which does work on 8088 (supposedly).

> - The package contains various obsolete and unuseful stuff. This issue, at
> least, could be very easily fixed :hungry: Found:
> - - CWSDPMI v3 from 1995 (desperately obsolete and buggy, should be
> replaced by CWSDPMI v5 at least, better HDPMI32, even better (but not
> trivial at all) merge JPG&PNG support into CORE.EXE
Yes, CWSDPMI r5 would be best, IMO.

> - - CTMOUSE 1.8 - just remove (no need to include a mouse driver)
There are three CTMOUSE versions that i know of: CTmouse 1.9 (stable), CTmouse 2.0 (wheel, EGA support), CTmouse 2.1 beta (no EGA support).

BTW, I did e-mail Glenn recently telling him to update ZIP, UNZIP, UNRAR (and he did, for the next version anyways).

> - - USBASPI advertising - no need, not Arachne related at all, and legally
> problematic

Someone needs to really really "harrass" (for lack of better word) the driver companies for clarification about their licensing.

> I wonder how many people (except K. Udo) actually had Arachne working or
> "use" it seriously, and with what connection type or cards. Especially,
> whether someone has it working with a PCI Ethernet card.
The developers all use it, but I dunno outside of them (like I said, very confusing, and Linux seems to have automatic DHCP which worked easier for my dumb a**, anyways).

> If someone knows where to search for DOS drivers for PCI Ethernet cards
> (Linksys) - most what I found so far were "bootdisks" (very questionable
> stuff, mostly obviously pirated) - please post info :hungry:
All I know (besides Crynwr) is Georg Potthast's online collection.

---
Know your limits.h
Japheth

Homepage

Germany (South),
30.08.2007, 07:32

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

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> I wonder how many people (except K. Udo) actually had Arachne working or
> "use" it seriously, and with what connection type or cards. Especially,
> whether someone has it working with a PCI Ethernet card.

It works for me, using the built-in NIC or an external PCI NIC. For both a packet driver is available. I don't "use" Arachne, however.

---
MS-DOS forever!
Matjaz

Homepage E-mail

Maribor, Slovenia,
30.08.2007, 21:32

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

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> Need a driver :surprised:
That's not surprising - you need that same driver for almost any dos internet stuff (for example for all WATTCP programs).

> I wonder how many people (except K. Udo) actually had Arachne working or
> "use" it seriously, and with what connection type or cards. Especially,
> whether someone has it working with a PCI Ethernet card.
I've got it up and running on EDR-DOS. I use it when I use my DOS comp. It has a wired PCI nic (Realtek RTL-8139), it connects to internet trough router. Arachne detects settings using DHCP.

> If someone knows where to search for DOS drivers for PCI Ethernet cards
> (Linksys) - most what I found so far were "bootdisks" (very questionable
> stuff, mostly obviously pirated) - please post info :hungry:
Well I gues, if you own the hardware, you are also entitled to use a driver for it, no mather where you've got it from (at least if it was released by the company that made the hardware).
DOS386

31.08.2007, 07:03

@ Matjaz
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

Post reply

Matjaz wrote:

> I've got it up and running on EDR-DOS.

Any success on FreeDOS around ?

> has a wired PCI nic (Realtek RTL-8139), it connects to internet trough
> router. Arachne detects settings using DHCP.
Good. I'll have to look for a RTL-8139 at worst :-|

> you own the hardware, you are also entitled to use a driver for it
That's what I would hope :-| Nevertheless, I'd prefer to get it a reasonable way and with documentation.

Rugxulo wrote:

> long past where the developers care about 16-bit compatibility in Arachne.
Then CORE.EXE should become 32-bit (OK, easy to suggest, not easy to do :-| )

> recently suggested LxPic to Glenn, which does work on 8088 (supposedly).
Bad idea. LXPIC's support of JPG is limited, and no PNG support al all :-(

rr wrote:

> Again: Please tell us the complete NIC name! We are not clairvoyants.
Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
31.08.2007, 10:11

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

Post reply

> Good. I'll have to look for a RTL-8139 at worst :-|
see realtek8139_e.htm for a list of RTL8139 clones.

> That's what I would hope :-| Nevertheless, I'd prefer to get it a
> reasonable way and with documentation.
If you want to get it, then do something. Ask Panasonic...

> Then CORE.EXE should become 32-bit (OK, easy to suggest, not easy to do
> :-| )
Why? 32-bit software panacea. :-P

> Bad idea. LXPIC's support of JPG is limited, and no PNG support al all
> :-(
You could ask Stefan for source code and extend it.

> > Again: Please tell us the complete NIC name! We are not clairvoyants.
>
> Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II
Strange name. ;-) Please get PCISLEEP from Eric Auer's website and post output from pcisleep l (lower "L") and pcisleep q02!

---
Forum admin
Matjaz

Homepage E-mail

Maribor, Slovenia,
31.08.2007, 11:03

@ rr
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

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> see
> realtek8139_e.htm
> for a list of RTL8139 clones.
I've got one that is not on a list :-) LINK. It costs 6 EUR in our local store. And it commes with documentation and driwers (for dos too).

> Why? 32-bit software panacea. :-P
It has already been done in the past: Caldera WebSpyder (See the no.3.)

> > Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II
>
> Strange name. ;-) Please get PCISLEEP from Eric Auer's website and post
> output from pcisleep l (lower "L") and pcisleep
> q02!

What about this driver?
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
31.08.2007, 11:55

@ Matjaz
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

Post reply

> > > Linksys EtherPCI LAN Card II
> >
> > Strange name. ;-) Please get PCISLEEP from Eric Auer's website and post
> > output from pcisleep l (lower "L") and pcisleep
> > q02!
>
> What about this
> driver?
I really dislike those driver sites. :no: I always download drivers from the manufacturer's site.

---
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Matjaz

Homepage E-mail

Maribor, Slovenia,
31.08.2007, 16:22

@ rr
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

Post reply

> I really dislike those driver sites. :no: I always download drivers from
> the manufacturer's site.
I agree (generally) - you can't know who you can trust these days. So here is official Linksys download for that driver.

DOS386 wrote:

> Searched driver ... no reasonable DOS network driver download exists
I think this claim has been proven wrong :-D
DOS386

02.09.2007, 12:49
(edited by DOS386, 02.09.2007, 16:36)

@ Matjaz
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

Post reply

Thanks.

> So here is official Linksys
YES :-) They have the driver ... but broken search (I had searched there before) ... your both links have the exactly same one.

The file is a DOS ARJ SFX and extracts to 100 files, with a very small minority intended for DOS (seems to). But no DOS related info (except one has to avoid EMM386 from MS-DOG older than 6.22), and quite similar to what I had pirated before. Used "LNEPCI2.DOS" and "LNEPCI2.COM" and didn't work.

EDIT silly stuff removed

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
Matjaz

Homepage E-mail

Maribor, Slovenia,
02.09.2007, 14:54

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and piracy :-(

Post reply

> The file is a DOS ARJ SFX and extracts to 100 files, with a very small
> what I had pirated before. Used "LNEPCI2.DOS" and "LNEPCI2.COM" and didn't
> work.
So you are trying to setup a local network? Because that's wat this LNEPCI2.DOS is for. And that's why you get the "Cannot open PROTMAN$" error. If you just want to get Arachne working you need to run LNEPCI2.COM from "PKTDRV" directory like this: LNEPCI2.COM 0x60 to install the driver to int 0x60 which is default for Arachne. Run it from command line or autoexec.bat. You can allso try to load it high. If it still doesn't work, try to run it as the last command in autoexec.bat (I had problems when it wasnt the last).
DOS386

02.09.2007, 16:34

@ Matjaz
 

Arachne DOS browser works !!!

Post reply

> So you are trying to setup a local network? Because that's wat this
> LNEPCI2.DOS is for. And that's why you get the "Cannot open PROTMAN$"
> error. If you just want to get Arachne working you need to run LNEPCI2.COM
> from "PKTDRV" directory like this: LNEPCI2.COM 0x60 to install
> the driver to int 0x60 which is default for Arachne.

So the LNEPCI2.COM is the only file I need ? :hungry:

Nevertheless, it works now :-)

I can:

- Login into SF and post in SF forums (maybe bad idea, since Arachne doesn't support encryption, seems SF silently puts up with plain text HTTP :-| )
- Login and post in phpBB forums
- Edit Drdos-Wiki (but tends to vandalize the pages :-( )
- Download stuff (slow (?), when ZIP download done, it displays contents of the ZIP (??), file remains in CACHE with odd filename

Notes:

- PNG decoder is buggy (some PNG's decode correctly, some not). YES, PNG is important for me :surprised:
- Occasionally jumps to arachne.cz (???) text in forum posting box lost :-(
- Layout not always correct
- JavaSh*t and Flash*t reported not to work, so I didn't bother to test :lol3:

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
02.09.2007, 17:28

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser works !!!

Post reply

> - Download stuff (slow (?), when ZIP download done, it displays contents
> of the ZIP (??), file remains in CACHE with odd filename
Yes, that's one of the most annoying things in Arachne.

---
Forum admin
Laaca

Homepage

Czech republic,
02.09.2007, 21:04

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser works !!!

Post reply

If you download a file you have to
1) click on the link
2) on the screen appears the content of the archive
3) press F2
4) click on save to

Reportedly - the behaviour of saving files can be configured but I don't know how can it be done
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
31.08.2007, 23:36
(edited by Rugxulo, 31.08.2007, 23:48)

@ rr
 

LXPIC

Post reply

> > Bad idea. LXPIC's support of JPG is limited, and no PNG support al all
> > :-(
I haven't tested it extensively with all types of JPEGs (and most .JPG decoders probably have issues with lossless or JPEG2000 or weird stuff like that). Anyways, I don't know of a better / smaller / freer / 8086-compatible .JPG viewer (and .GIF and .BMP and .PCX with thumbnails, slide, zoom, all video modes). :-P :-D

> You could ask Stefan for source code and extend it.
Already asked him for my FreeDOS floppy distro, and he refused (but still allows free use, thankfully, plenty fair enough). Maybe he makes money off bundling it with commercial software??? (I dunno ...) Certainly will be on my eventual non-free/libre disk #3 (if I ever get a "round tuit", heh).

---
Know your limits.h
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
01.09.2007, 17:26

@ rr
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> > Good. I'll have to look for a RTL-8139 at worst :-|
> > Bad idea. LXPIC's support of JPG is limited, and no PNG support al all
> > :-(
>
> You could ask Stefan for source code and extend it.
You tested zlib with OW 1.7-RC2, no? Did you only compile to 32-bit or did you try with 16-bit DOS too? (Any .PNG viewer needs Inflate support). Actually, I don't know if a 16-bit DOS .PNG viewer even exists (anyone??). Pictview, Display, and Blocek all require 386+.

---
Know your limits.h
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
01.09.2007, 20:44

@ Rugxulo
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> You tested zlib with OW 1.7-RC2, no? Did you only compile to 32-bit or did
> you try with 16-bit DOS too? (Any .PNG viewer needs Inflate support).
Yes, I only tried 32-bit DOS, but later Carl Young said: "There is a ZLIB in the OW tree - in \contrib\zlib." see below

> Actually, I don't know if a 16-bit DOS .PNG viewer even exists (anyone??).
I have no idea, but I'm no authority, because I don't use .PNG very often.

This is "contrib\zlib\msdos\Makefile.w16":

# Makefile for zlib
# Open Watcom C/C++ 1.3 or later. Earlier versions may also work.
# Last updated: 12-Jun-2005

# To use, do "wmake -f makefile.w16"
# To compile in small model, set below: MODEL=s

# If you wish to reduce the memory requirements (default 256K for big
# objects plus a few K), you can add to the LOC macro below:
#   -DMAX_MEM_LEVEL=7 -DMAX_WBITS=14
# See zconf.h for details about the memory requirements.

#    Optional nonstandard preprocessor flags (e.g. -DMAX_MEM_LEVEL=7)
#    should be added to the environment via "set LOCAL_ZLIB=-DFOO" or added
#    to the declaration of LOC here:
LOC = $(LOCAL_ZLIB)

# Type for CPU required: 0: 8086, 1: 80186, 2: 80286, 3: 80386, etc.
CPU_TYP = 0

# Memory model: one of S, M, C, L (small, medium, compact, large)
MODEL=l

# Target OS: one of dos, os2. Defaults to host OS. Uncomment to override.
#TARGET_OS=dos
#CC_TARGET=-bt=$(TARGET_OS)
#LD_TARGET=sys $(TARGET_OS)

CC=wcc
CFLAGS=-zq -m$(MODEL) -$(CPU_TYP) -wx -oaxt $(LOC) $(CC_TARGET)
LIB_CFLAGS=-zl $(CFLAGS)

LD=wlink
LDFLAGS= $(LD_TARGET) option quiet, map, stack=0x1500

# variables
ZLIB_LIB = zlib_$(MODEL).lib

OBJ1 = adler32.obj compress.obj crc32.obj deflate.obj gzio.obj infback.obj
OBJ2 = inffast.obj inflate.obj inftrees.obj trees.obj uncompr.obj zutil.obj


# targets
all:  $(ZLIB_LIB) example.exe minigzip.exe

.c.obj:
        $(CC) $(LIB_CFLAGS) $*.c

adler32.obj: adler32.c zlib.h zconf.h

compress.obj: compress.c zlib.h zconf.h

crc32.obj: crc32.c zlib.h zconf.h crc32.h

deflate.obj: deflate.c deflate.h zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h

gzio.obj: gzio.c zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h

infback.obj: infback.c zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h inftrees.h inflate.h &
 inffast.h inffixed.h

inffast.obj: inffast.c zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h inftrees.h inflate.h &
 inffast.h

inflate.obj: inflate.c zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h inftrees.h inflate.h &
 inffast.h inffixed.h

inftrees.obj: inftrees.c zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h inftrees.h

trees.obj: trees.c zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h deflate.h trees.h

uncompr.obj: uncompr.c zlib.h zconf.h

zutil.obj: zutil.c zutil.h zlib.h zconf.h

example.obj: example.c zlib.h zconf.h
        $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $*.c

minigzip.obj: minigzip.c zlib.h zconf.h
        $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $*.c


# the command line is cut to fit in the MS-DOS 128 byte limit:
$(ZLIB_LIB): $(OBJ1) $(OBJ2)
        if exist $(ZLIB_LIB) del $(ZLIB_LIB)
        wlib -q $(ZLIB_LIB) $(OBJ1)
        wlib -q $(ZLIB_LIB) $(OBJ2)

example.exe: example.obj $(ZLIB_LIB)
        $(LD) $(LDFLAGS) file example.obj lib $(ZLIB_LIB)

minigzip.exe: minigzip.obj $(ZLIB_LIB)
        $(LD) $(LDFLAGS) file minigzip.obj lib $(ZLIB_LIB)

test: example.exe minigzip.exe .symbolic
        example
        echo hello world | minigzip | minigzip -d

clean: .symbolic
        -del *.obj
        -del *.lib
        -del *.exe
        -del *.map
        -del zlib_*.bak
        -del foo.gz

---
Forum admin
Rugxulo

Homepage

Usono,
02.09.2007, 03:15

@ rr
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> > Actually, I don't know if a 16-bit DOS .PNG viewer even exists
> (anyone??).
>
> I have no idea, but I'm no authority, because I don't use .PNG very
> often.
It's used on the web more and more these days (now that popular browsers support it well). But of course, it was really just meant to replace .GIF (whose LZW patents have finally expired). It's not for photographic images like JPEG is but is better for line drawings, web cartoons, etc.

---
Know your limits.h
DOS386

02.09.2007, 12:32

@ Rugxulo
 

.PNG support | Stefan | PNG obsolete ??

Post reply

Rugxulo wrote:

> haven't tested it extensively with all types of JPEGs (and most .JPG decoders
> probably have issues with lossless or JPEG2000 or weird stuff like that)
NO. The affected JPG's are not JPEG-2000. JPEG-2000 is completely different from original JPG and completely useless (most other viewers will ("issues") reject them as well and no browser support at all BTW) because of the ridiculously restrictive licensing policy :-P

> don't know of a better / smaller / freer / 8086-compatible .JPG viewer
> (and .GIF and .BMP and .PCX with thumbnails, slide, zoom, all video modes)
Mostly true ... just no PNG and limited JPG support only, and some others are open source ("freer") ;-)

> > You could ask Stefan for source code and extend it.
> Already asked him for my FreeDOS floppy distro, and he refused
But what ? Source release ? Adding PNG ? Allow redistributing with your Distro ?

> But of course, it was really just meant to replace .GIF (whose LZW patents have
> finally expired). It's not for photographic images like JPEG is but is better for line

Missed something ? :crying: PNG "really just" as temporary hack obsoleted by LZW84 patent expiry ? PNG is the by far most useful image format ... and if a browser or viewer doesn't support it - fault of the browser or viewer :rotfl: And it's for photographic images as well (lostless, but less compression than JPG of course) ;-)

---
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the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
Rugxulo

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Usono,
02.09.2007, 22:05

@ DOS386
 

.PNG support | Stefan | PNG obsolete ??

Post reply

> Mostly true ... just no PNG and limited JPG support only, and some others
> are open source ("freer") ;-)
Yes, but I meant that for all its features, there is not quite a comparable "small, 8086" image viewer (at least, not that I know of, I'm sure some hardcore old-skool 8086er might've written one ... I should ask Jim Leonard).

Yes, true, some are "freer" (though good luck defining that, seems BSD and GPL disagree big time). :-P

> > Already asked him for my FreeDOS floppy distro, and he refused
>
> But what ? Source release ? Adding PNG ? Allow redistributing with your
> Distro ?
"No" only to source release, redistribution is okay. I didn't ask about .PNG, though (unlikely to be implemented, would take much more than a simple tweak).

> Missed something ? :crying: PNG "really just" as temporary hack obsoleted
> by LZW84 patent expiry ? PNG is the by far most useful image format ...
Yes, you're right, it's much better designed, more powerful, but one of (if not THE) main goals initially WAS to replace the patented .GIF format.

> and if a browser or viewer doesn't support it - fault of the browser or
> viewer :rotfl: And it's for photographic images as well (lostless, but
> less compression than JPG of course) ;-)
Yes, I mean, AFAIK it was never intended to be for photographic stuff. And I forget which, but old IE (5.0?) was supposedly kinda broken re: PNG. So it's not quite as common as .GIF or .JPG (or at least wasn't until recently, credit that positive shift to Mozilla Firefox being FOSS).

Anyways, just read the spec here. :-D

---
Know your limits.h
DOS386

05.09.2007, 02:39

@ Rugxulo
 

.PNG support | Stefan | PNG obsolete ??

Post reply

> "No" only to source release, redistribution is okay. I didn't ask about .PNG,
> though (unlikely to be implemented, would take much more than a simple tweak).
Definitely. It's easier to decode PNG with big RAM (complete file fits in), and even with a "low RAM" version one might run out of the 64 KiB "limit" :-|

> (if not THE) main goals initially WAS to replace the patented .GIF format.
YES.

> Yes, I mean, AFAIK it was never intended to be for photographic stuff.
:confused:

> but old IE (5.0?) was supposedly kinda broken re: PNG.
IIRC it did support it already ... just nobody knew :lol3:

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
Steve

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US,
02.09.2007, 01:42

@ Rugxulo
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> Actually, I don't know if a 16-bit DOS .PNG viewer even exists (anyone??).
CompuShow / CShow - Apparently free
Installer EXE, with Borland Pascal CRT bug
ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/graphics/cshow904.zip

Graphic Workshop - Shareware
http://www.programmersheaven.com/download/1926/download.aspx
Current Win32 version from Alchemy Mindworks
http://www.mindworkshop.com/alchemy/alchemy.html
DOS386

02.09.2007, 12:24

@ Steve
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> CompuShow / CShow - Apparently free
> Installer EXE, with Borland Pascal CRT bug
Indeed 16-bit and PNG support, but NOT free and desperately buggy (Error-200 bug and many additional bugs as well) :-(

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
Steve

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US,
14.09.2007, 10:19

@ Steve
 

.PNG support

Post reply

The NOMMSI Viewer handles "OS/2 Bitmap arrays, IFF HAM coding and PBM FORMs, PCX CGA/EGA images, PNG alpha chanel, gamma correction and many TIFF extensions..."

"The NOMSSI Viewer Release 1.5 should run under DOS 3.3 or higher (DR DOS, MSDOS, NOVELL DOS, OS/2 or Windows DOS session) on any IBM PC compatible with 640 Kb memory, 80286 processor and VGA adapter or better. The JPEG decoding routines require a 80386SX processor or better. The NOMSSI Viewer for DPMI (NVX) requires extended memory."

Shareware, DM36 or US$29.
Website: http://www.nomssi.de/nview/nview.html

Author's home page, with other interesting software:
http://www.nomssi.de/
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
14.09.2007, 10:27

@ Steve
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> The NOMMSI Viewer handles "OS/2 Bitmap arrays, IFF HAM coding and PBM
> FORMs, PCX CGA/EGA images, PNG alpha chanel, gamma correction and many
> TIFF extensions..."
Month ago I had a short "discussion" with Jacques about NV's license and obtaining a registered version. He wanted to ask another company, which distributed NV in the past, but I never heard of him again. Any later mails were ignored. :-(

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Usono,
15.09.2007, 04:28

@ rr
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> Month ago I had a short "discussion" with Jacques about NV's license and
> obtaining a registered version. He wanted to ask another company, which
> distributed NV in the past, but I never heard of him again. Any later
> mails were ignored. :-(
You mean about this?

> The NOMSSI Viewer for DPMI (NVX) was never ShareWare.
> It is distributed in Germany by Ctronics.
> The current fee for this package is DM 49,-.

---
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rr

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Berlin, Germany,
16.09.2007, 18:07

@ Rugxulo
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> You mean about this?
>
> > The NOMSSI Viewer for DPMI (NVX) was never ShareWare.
> > It is distributed in Germany by
> Ctronics.
> > The current fee for this package is DM 49,-.
Yes.

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Usono,
16.09.2007, 21:48

@ rr
 

.PNG support

Post reply

> > > The NOMSSI Viewer for DPMI (NVX) was never ShareWare.
> > > It is distributed in Germany by
> > Ctronics.
> > > The current fee for this package is DM 49,-.
>
> Yes.
So search Ctronics' website, and if it's not available for purchase, e-mail them asking where to find it (or whether they still support it, etc.)

Is their viewer really superior to all others (or just worth having for other reasons)?

---
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Steve

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US,
15.09.2007, 08:46

@ rr
 

NOMSSI Viewer

Post reply

> Month ago I had a short "discussion" with Jacques about NV's license and
> obtaining a registered version. He wanted to ask another company, which
> distributed NV in the past, but I never heard of him again. Any later
> mails were ignored. :-(
If he shows no interest in taking your money, does that mean it's free? It's available at SAC download sites, but not at his own site...
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
16.09.2007, 18:07

@ Steve
 

NOMSSI Viewer

Post reply

> If he shows no interest in taking your money, does that mean it's free?
Sorry, I'm not a lawyer. :-|

---
Forum admin
DOS386

02.09.2007, 12:21

@ rr
 

Arachne DOS browser | Eric's SLEEP

Post reply

> get PCISLEEP from Eric Auer's website and post output from
> pcisleep l (lower "L") and pcisleep q02
Very good :-)

1. Works:

PCI BIOS version 2.10, highest bus number is  1.
00.0a   [1050:0940] 0200    other      LAN / Ethernet

(uppercase "L" works also, "Q02" doesn't bring up any additional breaking news)

2. Detects also PCI sound card & nice source, 1st step to get access there :-)

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
02.09.2007, 18:30

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser | Eric's SLEEP

Post reply

> > get PCISLEEP from Eric Auer's website and post output from
> > pcisleep l (lower "L") and pcisleep q02
>
> Very good :-)
>
> 1. Works:
>
> PCI BIOS version 2.10, highest bus number is  1.
> 00.0a   [1050:0940] 0200    other      LAN / Ethernet
>
> (uppercase "L" works also, "Q02" doesn't bring up any additional breaking
> news)
You probably misunderstood me. lower "L" means, that this parameter should not be confused with 1 (the digit).

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Usono,
31.08.2007, 23:47

@ DOS386
 

list of Arachne forums (for potential helpers)

Post reply

FYI, here's what Glenn told me recently (22 August 2007):

> The Yahoo group is located at...
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/
>
> The most heavily used message board at the moment is....
> http://www.hi-line.net/~gfeig/ctst/ctsindex.php
> (main topic of discussion recently has been the
> version of Arachne being developed by Ray Andrews)
 >
> My own message board is at....
> http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/aqc/
 >
> And....... I just started a project for us at SourceForge.
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/arachne-browser/
So, if anybody wants to follow development (or help), these are the best places to do so. ;-)

---
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DOS386

11.09.2007, 06:29

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and Ethernet cards

Post reply

BTW, anyone got such an Ethernet card working in DOS so far ? :hungry:

[image]

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
11.09.2007, 14:53

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and Ethernet cards

Post reply

> BTW, anyone got such an Ethernet card working in DOS so far ? :hungry:
No, but dfe690TXD_driver_5392.exe holds an enabler, NDIS2 driver, packet driver.

---
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DOS386

13.09.2007, 03:02

@ rr
 

Arachne DOS browser and Ethernet cards

Post reply

[image]

Only thing looking crappy is the non-DOS BOCHS stuff :lol3:

The TrueColor PNG decodes correctly :-)

To rr:

Would it be possible to increase image size limit to 850x650 ? Seems you already increased from 600x600 to 800x600 for your BOCHS'y shot :rotfl:

Thanks.

BTW, the 100 KiB limit is very generous, it's pretty impossible to exceed it with a DOS shot except you are doing intentionally very much very wrongly :lol3:

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
rr

Homepage E-mail

Berlin, Germany,
13.09.2007, 10:00

@ DOS386
 

Arachne DOS browser and Ethernet cards

Post reply

> Only thing looking crappy is the non-DOS BOCHS stuff :lol3:
That's because Arachne doesn't fully support CSS and `my little forum' was modeled after Firefox.

> Would it be possible to increase image size limit to 850x650 ? Seems you
Yes, it would be possible, of course, but I will not change the current limit, because pictures should only assist text. You already spammed Dr-DOS Wiki. Crop or scale down your images instead. :-D

> already increased from 600x600 to 800x600 for your BOCHS'y shot :rotfl:
That's right.

> BTW, the 100 KiB limit is very generous, it's pretty impossible to exceed
> it with a DOS shot except you are doing intentionally very much very
> wrongly :lol3:
Reduced to 75 Kbyte. :-P

---
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DOS386

16.09.2007, 00:31

@ rr
 

Arachne DOS browser and Ethernet cards

Post reply

> You already spammed Dr-DOS Wiki.
Thanks for the crucial hint :clap: :clap: :clap:

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***
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