DOS ain't dead - FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

DOS386

14.07.2010, 03:55

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably) (Miscellaneous)

[image]

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This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

Rugxulo

Usono,
14.07.2010, 18:50

@ DOS386

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

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I'm pretty naive in this area, but this is probably related to S.M.A.R.T. technology. AFAICT, hard drives are notorious for flaking out after a few years (not to mention modern technology in general).

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Know your limits.h

RayeR

CZ,
15.07.2010, 12:09

@ Rugxulo

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

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> I'm pretty naive in this area, but this is probably related to S.M.A.R.T.
> technology. AFAICT, hard drives are notorious for flaking out after a few
> years (not to mention modern technology in general).

Wow, new Windows finally support SMART (after 15 years or so)?

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

roytam 16.07.2010, 10:42 @ RayeR	FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably) Post reply
	> > I'm pretty naive in this area, but this is probably related to > S.M.A.R.T. > > technology. AFAICT, hard drives are notorious for flaking out after a > few > > years (not to mention modern technology in general). > > Wow, new Windows finally support SMART (after 15 years or so)? It was supported since XP (maybe a bit earlier, 2000)

RayeR

CZ,
16.07.2010, 14:48

@ roytam

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

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> > > I'm pretty naive in this area, but this is probably related to
> > S.M.A.R.T.
> > > technology. AFAICT, hard drives are notorious for flaking out after a
> > few
> > > years (not to mention modern technology in general).
> >
> > Wow, new Windows finally support SMART (after 15 years or so)?
>
> It was supported since XP (maybe a bit earlier, 2000)

Really? Where can I check my HDD SMART status? (without 3rd party tools).
But if you have RAID or some additional controller (like it was popular HPT3xx UATA133) then you will not read SMART because of stupidity of windows drivers :\

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

roytam

17.07.2010, 05:40

@ RayeR

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

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> > > > I'm pretty naive in this area, but this is probably related to
> > > S.M.A.R.T.
> > > > technology. AFAICT, hard drives are notorious for flaking out after
> a
> > > few
> > > > years (not to mention modern technology in general).
> > >
> > > Wow, new Windows finally support SMART (after 15 years or so)?
> >
> > It was supported since XP (maybe a bit earlier, 2000)
>
> Really? Where can I check my HDD SMART status? (without 3rd party tools).
> But if you have RAID or some additional controller (like it was popular
> HPT3xx UATA133) then you will not read SMART because of stupidity of
> windows drivers :\

No. Windows will create Disk Event ID 52 when SMART value of that HD goes bad.
For checking detailed values for specified HD you have to use third party utilities(or from monitor program of controller).

And drivers from manufacturers may or may not have capability to read SMART values, please blame manufacturers. ;-)

RayeR

CZ,
17.07.2010, 14:57

@ roytam

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

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> No. Windows will create Disk Event ID 52 when SMART value of that HD goes
> bad.

OK but how the user is notified about that? Is there some warning in computer management/disk manager?

> And drivers from manufacturers may or may not have capability to read SMART
> values, please blame manufacturers. ;-)

I don't know details of windows driver models but SMART is readed through stanbdard ATA commands so there shouldn't be difference if I call read sector or get SMART status. So if there's a way how to call ATA command it should be passed to drive.
BTW my windows version of SMB utility tries to overcome this limitation by direct access to IDE controller (via kernel driver enabling I/O port access) and can read SMART data even from drives on HPT controller, etc. But I know this is not clean way because it may interfere with another ATA command sent by windows. Maybe helps CLI/STI while reading but its privilegend instructions, it works only under dos/win9x. Is there a better way? I didn't saw any driver of raid/addon controller that could read SMART normal way. Now I use only 4 channels on onboard ICH7 so I don't longer need this feature but just for my info...

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.

DOS386

23.07.2010, 07:45

@ RayeR

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

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> I don't know details of windows driver models but SMART is readed through
> stanbdard ATA commands so there shouldn't be difference if I call read
> sector or get SMART status. So if there's a way how to call ATA command it
> should be passed to drive.

Any DOS tools around to read it ???

BTW, there have been some, probably justified, complaints about FreeDOS DEFRAG in the past here and at some other places, nevertheless, the final champion impossible to beat among (faked) DEFRAG tools is of course not the FreeDOS DEFRAG, but the one of Windaube Wista. If you click Start Defragmentation, something happens: exactly nothing. What's on:

1. It's that fast that it's done in just a few ms :-)
2. There is no need to defrag :-|
3. It doesn't work :-(

Maybe one day the user takes the pain to look into the event viewer, and after 1/2 h of loading the viewer and another 1/2 h of loading the events, and several hours of studying the 1'000's of events, the truth is out:

[image]

---
This is a LOGITECH mouse driver, but some software expect here
the following string:*** This is Copyright 1983 Microsoft ***

RayeR

CZ,
23.07.2010, 15:06
(edited by RayeR, 23.07.2010, 22:36)

@ DOS386

FYI: DEATH (and the privilege to predict it reliably)

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> Any DOS tools around to read it ???

Of course there's no problem to read SMART status under DOS and there are various tools. My SMB program can do this, SMARTUDM, I guess ASTRA too and others. But I was asked by some Windows-only user, he had Abit BX133 with HPT372 UDMA133 (no RAID), and he wanted to read SMART under windows XP so I allowed it him by that dirty hack in my SMB :)

BTW I think if you enable SMART option in SETUP then BIOS checks the SMART status every boot and can display some warning. But thankfully I don't have any bad HDD with SMART that I could try.

> BTW, there have been some, probably justified, complaints about FreeDOS
> DEFRAG in the past here and at some other places, nevertheless, the

I don't use defrag (also because I dot't trust freedos defrag 100%) I use Norton Speedisk - it's fast and have many options for file/dirs ordering :)
And FAT32 partitions I defrag from windows by Speedisk fom NU2002.

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DOS gives me freedom to unlimited HW access.